This file is one of the Wolfstone archives of the Halloween mailing lists. You can find out more, and reach the entire collection here: http://www.pobox.com/~wolfstone/_r/HalloweenArchive.html This particular archive deals with "spider webs" topics. This includes: o web-spinners o web fluid - - - - - From: larry@qconline.com Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:07:02 -0600 Subject: HALL: my web maker design OK, for everyone who asked, I'll describe my homemade web maker. Judging by the web site pictures some of you have pointed me to, I didn't miss the mark by much. I know $80.00 for a professional web maker may not seem like much money to some, but to a lot of us home haunt makers, that's one, maybe even two years worth of budget! My motto is, if I can build a reasonably effective version of something for next to nothing, I'll have that much money to spend on something I absolutely cannot fake. Whoa, I'm getting dizzy up on this soapbox. Sorry. ANYWAY, the web maker is basically just a fan blade, on a shaft you can fit into a drill, with a container of some kind secured in the middle of the blade. The fluid I use is called cold vulcanizing fluid, and we use it to patch tires at the gas station where I used to work. It's NOT rubber cement, which I've tried as it is cheaper but doesn't work at all. I found an old stand fan in someones trash as I was driving to work, I have no shame, so I grabbed it, tore it apart, and found that I could salvage the shaft intact with the blade and threaded end cap. then I found a little round tupperware container maybe 2" in diameter and 2" tall at the local goodwill for a quarter(told you this thing was cheap) and fastened it securely to the end cap. Near the top of the container, I cut a small slit with a sharp razor blade. The tupperware container has a removable top, which is necessary to fill with the fluid. I've had to play with the size of the slit a bit but not too bad. A reversible, variable speed drill is needed to run this thing. The blades are angled so you have to put it in reverse to send the webs away from you. WARNING! The fluid is flammable so don't shoot near any candles or such. By the way, I have an idea for making a huge web like the kind at the beginning of Raiders of the Lost Ark if anyones interested. I haven't tried it yet, it would be a lot of fluid to do so I'll tell anyone who's interested if you'll let me know how it worked out. larry@qconline.com - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 03:12:31 -0800 Subject: Re: HALL: my web maker design At 11:07 PM 8/19/98 -0600, you wrote: > OK, for everyone who asked, I'll describe my homemade web >maker. >Judging by the web site pictures some of you have pointed me to, I >didn't miss the >mark by much. I know $80.00 for a professional web maker may not seem >like much money to some, but to a lot of us home haunt makers, that's >one, maybe even two >years worth of budget! There's absolutely nothing wrong making your own equipment, we all need to work with the tools and resources we have on hand! You'll find much more information about the web maker you described in the Halloween-L archives. Derek, cold vulcanizing fluid is found at auto parts stores for repairing tires. As I've mentioned over the years, Camel brand tire patch cement was the best and most consistent. The cob web machine sold in the $60.00 range by some Halloween stores and manufactured by Morris uses the solvent (trichloroethylene) style of Weldwood Contact Cement which is why it's impossible to clean off surfaces. - - - - - Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:09:09 -0400 From: Leonard Pickel Subject: Re: HALL: my web maker design Not to step on anyone's toes, but the best Webber I have ever used ( mind you I have not used Denny's) was a Home Built job made like an $80 pro model, in that it had floppy blades! (I wont mention who made this or how, because he in on the list and has been suspiciously quiet during this discussion) The premise is the same, in that it has a container with a way for the fluid to sling out, but the blades were made of a thick rubberized cloth like material attached to the container at an angle so that when they spun they created the fan motion. This allows the adjustment of blade pitch and does not hurt if you get your hand (or head) stuck in it! :) If you are in a pinch, Morris Costumes also sells a good web fluid which is non-flammable A MANDATORY CONDITION FOR WEBS!, and a solvent for clean up. (you can also mix rubber cement with the solvent and it becomes a non flammable web fluid) DO NOT, however, buy Morris' web spinner, I am using mine as a door stop! - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 03:58:36 -0800 Subject: Re: HALL: my web maker design At 11:09 AM 8/20/98 -0400, you wrote in part: >If you are in a pinch, Morris Costumes also sells a good web fluid which is >non-flammable A MANDATORY CONDITION FOR WEBS! Hi Leonard, Have you tried lighting those babies? Unless they've changed their formula dramatically in the last couple of months only the base solvent is non-flammable, the finished webs burn at an incredible rate. Pretty damn exciting actually. :) Denny PS. Maybe Ol... er, the nameless one, could do a write-up of his version for the H-L crowd.? SFX Designs (in Texas?) manufactures a commercial rubber bladed web maker similar to what you described. I've had a bunch of their fluid to play with but never had one of the SFX machines in hand. The fluid is nothing, but I've heard many good things about their spinner. - - - - - Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 06:44:16 -0400 From: Leonard Pickel Subject: Re: HALL: my web maker design Denny, who can almost keep a secret, Wrote: > Have you tried lighting those babies? Unless they've changed their formula >dramatically in the last couple of months only the base solvent is >non-flammable, the finished webs burn at an incredible rate. Pretty damn >exciting actually. :) Well, it has been a years of so, but yeah, if I remember correctly the the fluid itself did not burn..........But now that you mention it I don't remember flaming the webs! I will try to test some this weekend and let you know! >SFX Designs (in Texas?) manufactures a commercial rubber bladed web maker >similar to what you described. I've had a bunch of their fluid to play with >but never had one of the SFX machines in hand. The fluid is nothing, but >I've heard many good things about their spinner. The Homey one that I have works better than any stiff blade I ever made or saw working! - - - - - Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 18:45:58 -0500 From: thehauntfactory at att.net (Oliver Holler) Subject: Re: HALL: my web maker design >Maybe Ol... er, the nameless one, could do a write-up of his version for >the >H-L crowd.? It's really fairly simple (once you know how. . .) I spent a few long nights trying to figure out why webs kept flying into my face, etc. It's pretty straight forward. I just substitute rubber/vinyl blades for the hard ones. You can tape, pop rivet, etc them onto the pvc cap/reservoir at a slight angle. The spin (centrifugal force) makes the blades stand out straight and rigid, and blows a strong wind! And you can't bruise your hand, no matter how much I , er (you) try. (Actually, the rapid feathery slapping can be quite stimulating. . .) And Denny's web fluid is tops in my book now. Last Halloween just wouldn't have been the same! Very safe, and friendly to work with. (the web fluid, and Denny. . .) - - - - - From: "Fields, Karl" Subject: RE: HALL: Web shooter Vs. Strechy webs Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 17:25:35 -0400 We use both the stretchy and the TBD shooter (it was suppose to be shooter, right?). The TBD we use for all the detail and fairly close-up stuff. If the TOT is more than 6 or 8 feet from the web, we start using the stretchy because, just like a real cob web, you can't see them from any distance. The only problem we had was when we sprayed them on a flat black wrought iron fence. Here it is six months later and you can still see them imbedded in the paint. Haven't tried to clean them. Everywhere else they either disappeared after a few days or we pulled them and rolled into little balls. Being outside, we sprayed each night before we opened. Two things really kill them, water (dew) and wind. They react just the way a real web does to these elements. With the shooter you need to take some extra steps if you want a very thick web. We strung fishing line up to use as base and then built huge webs off that with the Shooter. If you aren't concerned with the fire retardant qualities of the product, there is a glue called Goop, that mixes very nicely with the fluid and created a much stronger web. - - - - - Subject: HALL: Web Making Device (sorry TBD) FOR SALE-get it before Halloween From: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:48:30 EDT Orders recieved by the 21st shipped in time for Halloween full info on web pages: http://pages.prodigy.net/steenky or http://members.aol.com/factoryoffears - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Web Shooters... From: "Ralph Mitchell" Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:42:38 -0400 The brand I used is Tech Intenational. The drummer in our band got it for me. He is part owner of a family run tire store here. You may have to get a tire store to order it in special for you. Ironman http://www.ironman.ourfamily.com http://www.villagesmithy.itgo.com/ http://www.onlinerock.com/musicians/madjack/inde.html -----Original Message----- From: Bartolome B. Garcia, Jr. To: Halloween List Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Hall: Web Shooters... >Ralph, >What is non-flammable vulcanizing fluid? I can't seem to find any here - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Web Spinner Success! From: Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 04:37:39 -0400 http://www.31inc.com/31asp/r31products.asp?SubCatId=3DCHMVLCCM here is a site that has cold non-flamable vulcanizing fluid by the = gallon... - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Hot Glue webs.. picture From: "Lee Alder" Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:27:56 -0500 this bit is saw on discovery channel 3 or 4 years ago. They piped the air flow through a copper tube (small tube about the size of a pencil) it was run up the front and the output was just under the nozzle for the hot = glue. The valve was triggered with the press trigger of the glue gun. The whole end was shrouded by a much larger tube part. judging by the sound and the users recoil, the air pressure was pretty high. on the order of 20 to 30 pounds would be my guess (but just a guess!!!). This was a prop for a movie company, used to cob web props and sets. It = won there new idea award. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Henry" To: "Halloween List" Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 11:01 PM Subject: Re: Hall: Hot Glue webs.. picture > How did you apply the air to the nozzle of the glue gun?? What kind of > nozzle did you use?? > > Mycroft wrote: > > > Ok.. after hearing about it, I had to try it. > > Looks like it works just fine. But I have no idea > > how flammable this is, nor what the life expectancy > > in the wild is. > > [Ok, I just checked.. applying direct flame results > > in the glue melting and dripping. No flame. This could > > be a good thing.] > > By the way, there is much more that the picture shows, > > that was all the camera could catch. > > > > Picture at > > http://halloween.uber-geek.org > > > > Michael Baumann > > Coiler, Homebrewer, Nerd... > > mycroft2 at earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~mycroft2 - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Hot Glue webs.. picture From: "Mycroft" Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:44:20 -0700 I used a 100% non-OSHA approve air nozzle. The type you use for blowing things off - but without the funky 'keep the idiot from injecting air under his skin' design. With the air flowing (at about 40 psi) I just put the tip of the glue gun into the flow of air and slowly pressed the trigger. *poof* instant webs. Michael Baumann Coiler, Homebrewer, Nerd... mycroft2 at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~mycroft2 > -----Original Message----- > From: Halloween-L at WildRice.com [mailto:Halloween-L at WildRice.com]On > Behalf Of John Henry > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 9:02 PM > To: Halloween List > Subject: Re: Hall: Hot Glue webs.. picture > > > How did you apply the air to the nozzle of the glue gun?? What kind of > nozzle did you use?? - - - - - Subject: RE: To Web or Not To Web From: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:30:14 -0700 Gene, >I need some web advise. I am trying to decide whether a Terror By Design= >web shooter would work good outside on trees and gravestones, maybe even= >the front of my house. Has anyone had any experience with this ? I've >searched for pics, but haven't really seen any. I know they make a great= >product, my concern is that it might be too detailed to look striking >outdoors. Anybody ? In my opinion, the effect created by the TBD web shooter is as impressive= outdoors as it is in, but it all boils down to the wind. The TBD web is likely more fragile than a real spider web and it just rolls up on itself= with even the slightest breeze. I applied a TBD web to a cemetery fence, trees, bushes, tombstones, the front of the house, ... last year and it was all but gone within an hour. Assuming your winds die down at night, I'd suggest that if you do plan on applying TBD webs outside, that you wa= it until the last minute (along with the million other things that you save for the last minute). I have a trellis over the walkway leading to the fr= ont door. I'm thinking about draping jute netting from the trellis in hopes of creating a windbreak. I'll likely limit my outdoor webs to this area. The web shooter is one of many great TBD products. - - - - - Subject: Re: To Web or Not To Web From: "Thee ScareCrow" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Wicked, Care to test a theory? Spray your web and then give the web a go-over with Aqua Net Hair Spray. --- wbn at wickedbeernut.com wrote: > Gene, > > >I need some web advise. I am trying to decide > whether a Terror By Design > >web shooter would work good outside on trees and > gravestones, maybe even > >the front of my house. Has anyone had any > experience with this ? I've > >searched for pics, but haven't really seen any. I > know they make a great > >product, my concern is that it might be too > detailed to look striking > >outdoors. Anybody ? > > In my opinion, the effect created by the TBD web > shooter is as impressive > outdoors as it is in, but it all boils down to the > wind. The TBD web is > likely more fragile than a real spider web and it > just rolls up on itself > with even the slightest breeze. I applied a TBD web > to a cemetery fence, > trees, bushes, tombstones, the front of the house, > ... last year and it > was all but gone within an hour. Assuming your winds > die down at night, > I'd suggest that if you do plan on applying TBD webs > outside, that you wait > until the last minute (along with the million other > things that you save > for the last minute). I have a trellis over the > walkway leading to the front > door. I'm thinking about draping jute netting from > the trellis in hopes > of creating a windbreak. I'll likely limit my > outdoor webs to this area. - - - - - Subject: Re: To Web or Not To Web (LONG) From: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:01:22 -0700 >>Care to test a theory? >> >>Spray your web and then give the web a go-over >>with Aqua Net Hair Spray. > >I doubt Mrs. Wicked Beernut has Aqua Net, but I should be able to come up >with something. I'll dig out the web shooter tonight and give it a shot.= All I can say is that I gave it a shot... Ironically, I just received a quart of TBD web fluid and my third UDT tod= ay. Thanks Denny! (P.S. They didn't leave it in the "pot" this time). I had hoped to be a little more scientific about this. I tied three fish lines between two of the legs of a card table, approximately 8" apart. I ran a fish line between the top, middle and bottom fish lines, creating a 2x2 grid. I "generously" applied a "sheet" of web across each of the fo= ur quadrants. Mrs. Wicked Beernut didn't have any Aqua Net. I had to opt for Paul Mitch= ell. I applied hair spray to the upper-left and lower-right quadrants of the web. Based on the physical appearance, you couldn't tell that I had applied ha= ir spray. I positioned a fan approximately four feet from the web. With the fan on,= each quadrant of the web formed somewhat of a "pocket", almost like a min= iature parachute. You could tell from these pockets that the quadrants which wer= e covered with hair spray didn't "give" quite as much. I ran the fan for approximately 10 minutes at low speed. There were no te= ars in the web. I increased the speed to medium. Still no tears. I increased the speed to high. Still no tears. I tried allowing the fan to oscillate.= Still nothing. All four quadrants of the web handled the air flow from the fan without exhibiting any damage. I gradually moved the fan closer and closer to the web until the web star= ted to break down. Unfortunately, I really couldn't draw any definitive concl= usions as to whether the hair spray had a significant affect on the durability of the web or not. A few observations... 1. I think that the hair spray certainly strengthened the web without not= iceably altering its appearance. The extent to which the hair spray strengthened the web is somewhat in question. I have no reason to believe that if I'd applied more hair spray that the web would have been even stronger. 2. I suspect that a $7 can of Paul Mitchell hair spray may have been "lig= hter" than, say, a can of Aqua Net. Aqua Net may have, in fact, been more effec= tive. 3. I applied generous sheets of web. This wouldn't be a typical applicati= on. I think the fact that the web was applied in a solid sheet added to its durability. I suspect that a more typical application would have broken down far more quickly. 4. I have to revise my original statement that the TBD web breaks down wi= th even the slightest breeze. Clearly, this isn't the case. If I can hit the= web with a fan set at high from four feet away, this certainly represents= more than a slight breeze. Again, I think that the final durability depen= ds on the application of the web (i.e. heavy vs. light). 5. And if anyone was wondering, yes, the hair spray made the web more fla= mmable. I applied a match to both the treated and untreated sections of web. The untreated sections of web tended to simply melt as where the treated (wit= h hair spray) sections of web tended to sustain a flame. The treated sectio= ns certainly didn't burst into flame, but there was definitely more of a fla= me than in the case of the untreated web. Again, I tried. Who knows. I may take another crack at webifying my entir= e yard haunt again this year. As I mentioned, I think if I were to apply th= e web later in the afternoon that the webs might just make it through the night. The TBD web shooter is a great product. Make sure that you use it in conj= unction with a high-speed drill. My DeWalt cordless won't cut it. But my cheapee corded Black and Decker works great. I may experiment with this some more. If I have any better luck, I'll cer= tainly keep you posted. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: To Web or Not To Web From: "Jeff A. Weinberg" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:53:07 -0700 Hi. Thanks for the mention. The web shooter is fantastic and worth every penny! I do use it for outside, but if there is any wind whatsoever (and there always is around here!) the webbing does just roll up on itself. I end up shooting new webs just about every other day - even though it probably needs it every day. I know someone mentioned using hair spray on it. That might actually work, but I would be very concerned about the flammability of it. Denny web fluid says that it is only flammable in it's liquid form, and once it dries, it's safe. From my small amount of knowledge in this area (watching America's Funniest Home Videos) I think hair spray stays flammable even when dry. What do you guys think? JAW. FUZZYSLIPR at aol.com wrote: > > Check with Jaweinberg on the list. He has one from Terror. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: To Web or Not To Web From: "Mr. Gore" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:24:57 -0500 I don't know if this has been posted or not but yo could possibly dust = with talcom powder to reduce the stickyness of it. That is what you do with = latex to keep it from sticking to itself when you pull it from a mold. Or whe = you use paxpaint, you have to dust it also. GORE GALORE and so much more Kevin R. Alvey AKA Mr. Gore phone 812-424-5220 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff A. Weinberg" To: "Halloween List" Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 10:53 AM Subject: Re: Hall: To Web or Not To Web > Hi. Thanks for the mention. The web shooter is fantastic and worth > every penny! I do use it for outside, but if there is any wind > whatsoever (and there always is around here!) the webbing does just roll > up on itself. I end up shooting new webs just about every other day - > even though it probably needs it every day. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Dust From: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:30:31 EDT By the way, for those of you who are trying to keep your sprayed = cob webs from sticking to themselves and other things, this product is made = just for that as well. Egg There is a product that is sold in the Motion Picture Industry that = is essentially dust. Its cheap and clean, not harmful to the lungs and isent combustible. It is sold at Mole Richardson and they sell a nifty hand pump = applicator as well. You know, like the old powder bug poison thingy. It is = primarily for dusting down the freshly created cob webs so they don't look = shiny and new. - - - - - Subject: To Web or Not to Web Alternatives From: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:48:04 EDT Hi All: I don't have one of TBD's web shooters, so I can't test this theory = out on my own, but after reading of Wicked Beernut's experiments with hair = spray and the subsequent search for non-flamable stiffening material, it = occurred to me that the same basic effect might easily be created with = liquid starch -- not the aerosol variety -- sprayed through a pump spray = bottle and then allowed to dry. I don't believe that the dried starch = would be any more flamable than the dried web material; I would at least = expect it to be much less flamable than dried hair spray. I suspect those on the list with more knowledge of chemistry than I = can (and hopefully will) suggest additional alternatives. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: To Web or Not To Web From: Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:39:53 -0700 >I know someone mentioned using hair spray on it. That might actually >work, but I would be very concerned about the flammability of it. Denny= >web fluid says that it is only flammable in it's liquid form, and once >it dries, it's safe. From my small amount of knowledge in this area >(watching America's Funniest Home Videos) I think hair spray stays >flammable even when dry. What do you guys think? I wanted to make sure that this point didn't get lost in my long post. I'= m pretty comfortable saying, based on my humble experiment, that hair spray= does increase the flammability of a TBD web. A flame would certainly trav= el along a heavy web generously coated with hair spray. An untreated web see= ms to be more flame resistant. In either case, you should keep any form of webbing away from a flame. - - - - - Subject: RE: TBD: Black lights and Fog From: "Thee ScareCrow" Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:23:34 -0700 (PDT) Terror by Design sells a UV Web Fluid titled: Web Fluid For Terror By Design's Web Shooter Fluid for glow-in-the-dark spider *WEBS*. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: The WebShooter From: "brandon champlin" Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:26:12 -0500 You can get it at http://www.terrorbydesign.com they are 90.00 all the information can be found on the site If you only have a year to live, move to Hardin Illinois. Every day seems like an eternity! >From: >Reply-To: "Halloween List" >To: "Halloween List" >Subject: Re: Hall: The WebShooter >Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:14:01 -0400 > >I'd like to know where you can buy a webshooter. I always string the = webs >the old fashioned way and it takes forever!! I'm also conscious of >cleanup. Is it easy to clean these up when you're done? Does it in any >way damage woodwork, pictures, brass, anything like that? AND, how much = do >they cost? >Roxanne - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: The WebShooter From: "William M Murphy" Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:06:36 -0400 I did make one from a soup can. The welds on two blades broke and = needless to say one of my props was inadvertently altered. Looked cool, just had = to add some blood to the torn mask. If I had to do it again I would add the rubber liner to the blades and hit myself in the head because after that I bought a web shooter from Denny the next day. I truly don't recommend building a web shooter. The forces placed on the equipment (you may or = may not be making) are enough to tear it apart if not properly balanced. It was a cool project though. Took about 4 hours. Took 4 minutes of real usage to be destroyed. Ever see what globs of web fluid look like when = they dry? (And I mean big globs!) It's pretty difficult to get the stuff off = the walls. And don't try and get cheap and use glue as web fluid. Yes it looks great and yes it's cheaper. But when you have one of those old starters on a black light and those fumes in the air. As Anne from the Weakest Link = would say "Goodbye". Glue is impossible to clean up. Just my mind wondering and me throwing a few bits into the night. William M. Murphy -----Original Message----- From: Halloween-L at WildRice.com [mailto:Halloween-L at WildRice.com]On Behalf = Of WebMistress Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 09:38 PM To: Halloween List Subject: Re: Hall: The WebShooter Someone on the list made one from a soup can. It seemed to work well as long as you bought your web solution. I don't want to search the archives :) But it was about 2 years ago. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: The WebShooter From: "Mark Dennison" Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:15:18 -0700 Try this link http://www.ghost-ride.com/products/cob_web/cw-1.html - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: The WebShooter From: "Iron Kingdom" Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:58:14 -0400 Hi Roxanne, A couple of years ago I built a web shooter using a plastic salsa jar that was glued and bolted to a plastic flex fan from a small block Chevy = car engine. (I tend to use a lot of car parts on my props.) The fans can be purchased at most auto parts stores for about $15.00 to $20.00. I ran a = 4" long carriage bolt through the bottom of the jar and through the center = hole of the fan and kept in place with a nylon locking nut. I used silicon sealer inside where the bolt ran through the bottom of the jar to keep the fluid from leaking. The stem of the bolt is used to chuck up into a hand drill. Two very small holes were drilled in the side of the jar near the lid for the web fluid to escape. I have used non-flammable cold = vulcanizing fluid from a tire store for the web fluid, but it is very hard to come by. I now use the standard web fluid sold by Denny at Terror By Design. I can tell you that you can get carried away spinning the webs. It's so easy = that you may end up webbing everything in sight. If I can help further let me know. Good luck. Ironman - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: The WebShooter From: "Bob -O" Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:08:59 -0500 I made a web shooter for about $3 and was very happy with it. Why would you have to buy that little propellor? Its just for air = movement. I just held up a portable fan in the other hand while I spun. It worked Great. - - - - -