This file is one of the Wolfstone archives of the Halloween mailing lists. You can find out more, and reach the entire collection here: http://www.pobox.com/~wolfstone/_r/HalloweenArchive.html This particular archive deals with "flicker and flames" topics. This includes: o flicker bulbs o electronic flicker generators o silk flames It does NOT include related topics: o lighting in general o REAL fire - - - - - From: Orniske Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:32:26 EST Subject: HALL: Re:Ê Sequenced Candleabra Lamps Dave wrote: >Great idea, Doug! Thanks for saying so!Ê I'm sure there will be several versions for sale at the next Transworld show.Ê (chuckle...) Here are a few hints on making it work: 1) You will need at least a 6 R.P.M. motor to turn the disk.Ê The 1 RPM motor I tried on the original required too dense an information code on the disk, and was too finicky regarding aperture size.Ê [You will need to experiment - I'm not giving this sucker away _completely_ free. ;-) ] 2) Read Scott Rider's Comments on the ALF device, regarding the nature of candle flicker timing before devising the pattern for your disk. This is available at the phanmech site (and in Don's Archives, I believe.) 3) One quickie trick involves using a flicker bulb as the exciter for the CdS cell, and foregoing the wheel altogether.Ê You'll still need an aperture, because you want to sample only part of the flicker bulb's structure. Another consideration is the _distance between the bulb and the photocell_. (In all versions, you'll want a trim pot in series with the CdS cell, to control sensitivity.Ê Remember, this is still an _experimental_ effect.) Your 'slaved' lights will 'track' the flicker bulb, duplicating its effect. Try this, if you use suggestion #3:Ê Place the sampled flicker bulb in a candlestick fixture (Christmas surplus) with the CdS sampler behind the bulb.Ê Light the scene with slaved spotlamps, and you'll get movie-style candlelight set lighting.Ê Be sure not to point your room lights into the sampling unit on the flicker bulb, to avoid regenerative feedback.Ê Caveat: I haven't had a chance to test this, but I _know_ that you can make it work. :-) - - - - - From: Orniske Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:50:58 EST Subject: HALL: Was: Flicker by Candle Light Now: FlickerPup Jim wrote: >As you probably have seen both flicker devices in operation: >I would like to know how the "strobe wheel" >incandescent flicker APPEARS in comparison with what you >can get with the ALF. The effect I have always been after is the gaslamp effect from the foyer of the Haunted Mansion and Big Thunder Mountain queue lines (Disney.) It can use a single bulb (unlike the ALF) and has a random-looking waver that I initially thought had to be noise-driven. Scott Rider found out that driving a dimmer with pink noise did not produce the effect we wanted, and that it would take a digital sample of a flickering lamp to make it work.Ê This would require builders to purchase a kit, with a ROM included, so we dropped that idea.Ê ALF was the electronic answer, and it works great for the effect it produces using two bulbs.Ê I still wanted to see if I could find a way to do it like Disney, with a single bulb. I have dubbed my new electromechanical device the 'FlickerPup', for Flicker Puppeteer - or Puppy, if you like. Using a CdS cell and a translucent wheel with a light source behind it, you can create your own mechanical sample playback device.Ê For my wheel, I printed a series of black lines, like spokes radiating out from the center, all of varying width.Ê I found this worked better for me than the wiggly lines of a film soundtrack, due - yes - to the limited frequency response of the CdS cell.Ê (The flicker-bulb method we have been discussing is intended as a cheaper/easier alternative to the motor/wheel setup.) I used Scott's little ASCII diagram in the ALF write-up as a guide for the type of line patterns to use for FlickerPup.Ê Believe it or not, I actually got the Disney flicker using this simple method, and I'm beginning to wonder if they aren't using a similar machine. A useful advantage of the FlickerPup is that it allows a multi-channel system.Ê Disney's 'imitation gas' lights all flicker exactly the same way, from fixture to fixture; but you can have a unit with 2 or more sensors around the wheel, and have several lamps in a given area of your haunt that seem to flicker differently, due to the timing offset. You can also use FlickerPup in combination with an ALF, to get variety. The invention has to be fine-tuned before I write it up and commit it to a video how-to.Ê I am still looking for the best motor to drive the wheel (bet on something from Grainger again ;-) ) and the simplest construction method.Ê I truly believe that anyone who can build the FCG can make one of these, and probably for under $50.Ê If you scrounge for spare parts, you can probably do it for next to nothing. More to come... - - - - - From: Orniske Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:49:31 EST Subject: HALL: RE: FlickerPup Jim K. wrote: >Albeit your explanation of Gas light flicker >seems close to what I accomplished by using >a simplified form of Scott's circuit. Quite right, but read on, and I'll try to explain what's up... There are three main things I wanted to accomplish with the FlickerPup:Ê I wanted one-bulb simplicity; I wanted a low- tech, 'anyone can build it' solution (only 4-5 solder connections and no board layout to calculate), and simple, absolute programmability. Very odd, extreme flickers are possible - including slow blinks and complete blackouts - which would otherwise require a digital rig.) A clever builder might be able to use translucent paints on the disk, and achieve slow, ramping (yet flickery) dimmer sequences for a room with a show effect. >I was just curious to know of any obvious difference, >you could mention in the APPEARANCE between >your electromechanical flicker as opposed to the >purely electronic flicker from the Op-amp circuit - for >comparison ignore the true ALF, >just imagine one bulb flickering by itself. Again, with the programmability, you have a _choice_ of how the flicker appears.Ê ALF, even with its parameter adjustments, cannot be as flexible as the disk system.Ê Of course, the disk system does repeat, but with a larger diameter disk, and a slower motor, that can be impossible to detect. I am still working on the motor solution, and am also thinking in terms of the posibility of disk vari-speed as an option.Ê You will also have the ability to set the level of illumination of any bulb connected to the modified dimmer, so the flicker centers around a level you arbitrarily choose, regardless of bulb wattage. The sensor will also have a sensitivity adjustment. As always, if someone wants to build a personal working prototype, I'd love to have it featured on the video, and eventually, in the book. The scarier the options, the merrier the haunting. ;-) - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: Re: HALL: Flicker by Candle Light Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:56:10 GMT >Jim wrote: > >>Now concerning idea # 3: creating a flicker effect in incandescent >>lamps by using a CdS cell to copy the effect of a neon flicker bulb. >> >>I vote that this is impossible with a CdS cell as the photoelectric >>interface.Ê The speed of response of a Cadmium Sulfide Cell resistor is >>too slow to be able to copy "flicker", which occur at intervals in tenths >>of seconds or less. > Doug wrote: >The fact is that I got gaslamp-style flicker (not flash/strobe, but that's >not what I'm after) successfully using the wheel method described earlier, >and the CdS was more than capable of scanning my quickly moving lines and >_averaging_ the reading.Ê This looks like an undulation in lighting level, >not a guttering flame. > >>It is possible to use a photo transistor for "seeing" the flicker effects of >a >>neon bulb but that will require different (more complex) circuitry.ÊÊ > >All I can say is:Ê 'Try it.'Ê Report your results to this forum. :-) >If it sucks, I will take the blame, and suggest another method. > I was also sceptical of the ability of a CdS cell to follow the flicker. So at lunch I bought a pack of 5 cells from RS (#276-1657). I selected the yellow bodied one with a short term semidark resistance of 350kohms. I soldered this across the 2 terminals of the potentiometer (used in rheostat mode) in a GE incandescent lamp dimmer. With some adjustment of the mask hole size and distance between the flicker lamp and the CdS cell, I was able to get the incandescent lamp to flicker. Frankly, I was amazed at the small signal response of the CdS cell. It's just the large signal response of one that is very slow. I'd read that they had a large signal response of several minutes after exposure to direct sunlight. (10 minutes later) Well, I've no direct sunlight today; the response is several seconds. It's resistance range is amazing though. 160 ohms pointed at a cloudy sky to >20Mohms in a black film canister. ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ chills, ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ jim fosse p.s. with some work, this $6ish unit could be used as a cheep photoelectric relay by using the CdS cell to turn off the triac in the lamp dimmer. - - - - - Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:02:27 -0600 From: Eddie White Subject: HALL: electronic candles a couple of questions on electronic candles. if a document were available that detailed theory of operation, schematic and possibly a printed circuit board drawing; would anyone be interested? of those interested, would it be only a very small sampling of list members that could handle the electronics and try to build the silly thing? or, if a pre-assembled and tested printed circuit board were available with hook-up drawings; would this open up the door for more folks?Ê would this door still be open if you were working with lethal line voltages? if one of the above could be satisfied, what would be preferred: a circuit that would flicker (random flash) line voltage lamps up to 600 watts with only off and on values for the lamp (no dimming.) or a circuit that would drive 12volt automotive lamps or something akin to those cheap yard lamps but have a continuously varying lamp voltage (dimming).ÊÊ are there any dealers out there that would carry such a product? i've been designing electronic candles for years; some so old i can no longer get the original parts for them. no one has ever shown any interest in such a toy before, so i've never given any thought of doing anything else with the designs other than pull a bunch of little boxes out of the attic every year. - - - - - From: mponke at ibm.net Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 16:48:17 -0500 Subject: Re: HALL: Re:Ê electronic candles ÊÊÊ I've got to put some input (bad pun, you'll get it further on in the post) in on this.Ê Why not use an amplifier playing any radio, tape, cd, etc. and hooking the low wattage lamps into that so that it would be totally random and have no repeat?Ê I've done this before with 9 volt bulbs for an opto-isolator and it worked great!Ê Give this a try.Ê You could adjust it by the volume or an inline pot.Ê If you had a big enough amplifier, you could drive a ton of bulbs!Ê Try it.Ê You'll like it! Orniske wrote: > Jerry wrote: > > >But I would like 12 dc "flash light" bulbs to be used. > > I want to second this request.Ê ALF uses AC, and so does FlickerPup. > I would love to be able to use low voltage DC lamps, especially in > a miniature setting.Ê It's next to impossible to find AC lamps > small enough and dim enough for the tiny props I want to use. > (Think: Haunted Dollhouse.) - - - - - Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 21:37:57 -0500 From: Jim Kadel Subject: HALL: electronic candles - portable d.c. Doug & other flickering folk, Disclaimer: I have built this so I know it works. The following is operational theory and not a "How To". A battery (d.c.) operated flickerer *can* be created for flashlite type bulbs using two 555's or a 556 chip. The idea is to have *two* (or more) oscillating circuits that have frequencies set close to each other. Thus the voltage output of each may be combined in a "beat frequency". The output of each oscillator is isolated by diode then jointly fed into the base of a single power transistor. The transistor feeds current to the flashlight bulb/s in proportion to the varying voltage on its base. With three or four oscillators feeding the transistor the flicker effect is further enhanced and the random nature of the candle lite reproduced extremely well. Jim ===================== REF ======================== At 05:54 PM 3/24/98 EST, you wrote: >Of course. So, one could use a low-voltage ALF. I am sure that >this would require some re-design of the schematic, though. (Yes/no?) > >I would prefer a single-bulb flickerer, myself, for small bulbs. - - - - - Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 02:29:14 -0600 From: Eddie White Subject: Re: HALL: Re: electronic candles i'm looking at a schematic for just such a toy; this thing drove 300 watts worth of 120vac lamps. my drawing dates back to 1969 (said i'd been doing these for a while.) there are a couple of transformers on it that i'd have to see if there are any still available and there is one part i don't have a clue what it's value is. is there enough interest for me to try to modernize this thing and put it out as an acrobat file? eddie At 09:37 PM 3/24/98 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-03-24 18:16:04 EST, you write: > >> >> I've got to put some input (bad pun, you'll get it further on in the >> post) in on this. Why not use an amplifier playing any radio, tape, cd, >> etc. and hooking the low wattage lamps into that so that it would be >> totally random and have no repeat? I've done this before with 9 volt bulbs >> for an opto-isolator and it worked great! Give this a try. You could >> adjust it by the volume or an inline pot. If you had a big enough >> amplifier, you could drive a ton of bulbs! Try it. You'll like it! >> >> Orniske wrote: >> > >Holy "____" Hot DAM! >you mean I could COMPOSE the music/sound on my computer to >"program" a pattern for the lights? - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: Re: HALL: Re: electronic candles Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 16:05:25 GMT On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 23:40:20 EST, Spookyfx , you wrote: >OK....follow me....I am exited about this.... > >Can you drive SCR, transistors. solid state or magnetic coil relays >with this amplified "sound" (relay analog current) this way? > >I am trying for a poor mans vox this way.... >Will that work? > >At this point it costs me $10 and a lot of time to put a VOX kit >together. But if this could be done DIRECTLY by using the >"sound" (current) to flip a gate, this would problem be just fine >for a LOT of the effects I use VOX/color organs for. > >would this work? > Jerry, Yes, it will work. I use this method to drive the automotive tail lamps that I put in my red dyed fountain each halloween. I use a solid state relay with it's control input connected to the output of my stereo. The "relay contacts" are connected to a 6Vac transformer and the lamp. By using only 6 volts to drive the 12 volt lamps, they glow a nice orange color. If you want them to glow white, use 12 volts. The disadvantage of this method is that you have to adjust the volume to set the lamp flicker rate unlike the FCG method using the 70.7 volt line transformer and a pot in which the volume and lamp flicker can be set independently. I placed the schematic at: ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.gif and ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.dxf The reversed diode across the control input is to protect the SSR's internal LED from blowing out. >If so, why use a color organ except when tone separation is needed? > >thanks >I can't wait to hear back on this... > The $3.95 2 channel color organs from Electronic Goldmine are cheeper. (if they are still available. www.goldmine-elec.com - - - - - Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:29:25 -0600 From: eddie white Subject: Re: HALL: Re: electronic candles At 04:05 PM 3/25/98 GMT, you wrote: ..snip.. this does work, but.... if you were a purest about your sound quality and hung a scope on the amp output with that circuit connected, you would see how trashed the audio signal has become. the diodes are rectifying any of the audio that is over .7volts. now if you wanted to improve on that circuit, put a small audio transformer between the amp and the diodes (i'm calling the led a diode too.) 500-500, 600-600 anything like that. carry it one step further and put a small one transistor amp between the transformer and the ssr to get some gain and you won't be using all the amps output power to drive the led. put a pot in the base of the transistor and you get some range control. now that you've gone that far, time to get fancy. the ssr has two finite states, on and off. replace the ssr with another transformer, a triac and a diac. now you can get a continously variable lamp brightness. the higher the audio input, the brighter the lamp. and now you have the circuit i have. eddie > >Jerry, > > Yes, it will work. I use this method to drive the automotive >tail lamps that I put in my red dyed fountain each halloween. I use a >solid state relay with it's control input connected to the output of >my stereo. The "relay contacts" are connected to a 6Vac transformer >and the lamp. By using only 6 volts to drive the 12 volt lamps, they >glow a nice orange color. If you want them to glow white, use 12 >volts. The disadvantage of this method is that you have to adjust the >volume to set the lamp flicker rate unlike the FCG method using the >70.7 volt line transformer and a pot in which the volume and lamp >flicker can be set independently. > >I placed the schematic at: > >ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.gif >and >ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.dxf > >The reversed diode across the control input is to protect the SSR's >internal LED from blowing out. - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: Re: HALL: Re: electronic candles Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 18:24:21 GMT Eddie, You are correct. In my hast, I forgot the 1k series resistor. I've updated both files. I agree about the limits of this circuit. I wanted it cheep and dirty. >this does work, but.... if you were a purest about your sound quality and >hung a scope on the amp output with that circuit connected, you would see >how trashed the audio signal has become. the diodes are rectifying any of >the audio that is over .7volts. > [snip] >now that you've gone that far, time to get fancy. the ssr has two finite >states, on and off. replace the ssr with another transformer, a triac and a >diac. now you can get a continously variable lamp brightness. the higher >the audio input, the brighter the lamp. and now you have the circuit i have. > A single channel color organ. >>I placed the schematic at: >> >>ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.gif >>and >>ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.dxf - - - - - Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 11:18:04 -0800 Subject: HALL: Flicker "Trunk" Circuits From: brotherfear at juno.com (David C Schwend) >My idea is to string 3 sets through out my HH. >I would tap into each line "randomly" to have >different flames in each room. Hey Jerry, Remember the Holliston Haunted House in Pasadena, CA? That's just what they did. They had "Flicker 1 ", "Flicker 2", and "Flicker 3" strung throughout their house. They tapped into it randomly, where they needed it, for chandeliers, wall sconces, and lanterns. - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: HALL: Flicker Neons Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:20:47 GMT I changed the subject to Flicker Neons instead of electronic candles. >Well, that is still 12vac , but it IS a good idea. >I am not sure if they would put out enough light.... > >My idea is to string 3 sets through out my HH. >I would tap into each line "randomly" to have >different flames in each room. > >This is for general lighting. > >I normally string a 120VAC of flicker bulbs. But this can be >a NO NO with the inspectors unless you have >a licensed electrician do it! > >So to avoid this, I want to do it wit BRIGHT dc screw base bulbs. >Or 12 dc BACKUP lights for cars. These lights are VERY bright. > Jerry, I've placed on my ftp site: ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/flicker_neon.gif ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/flicker_neon.dxf a schematic that powers neon flicker lamps from a dedicated audio amp. This circuit drives the standard decorative flame neon lamps with a 70.7 volt line transformer. The transformer is RS #32-1031B and costs $5.95. They still flicker like they do when powered by the power line but, in addition, they pulse to the beat of the music. You may be able to convince the inspectors that this is no different than a PA system. (I'm assuming that a PA system does not have to be installed by an electrician. I may be wrong here) I've run 2 flicker lamps (all I have) off of my 1 watt output radio. I don't suggest that you use this line for powering speakers unless you really like the '70s fuzz sound. The neons distort the audio quality very badly. - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: Re: HALL: Flicker Neons Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:58:36 GMT On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 21:20:47 GMT, jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse), I wrote: [snip] >Jerry, > >I've placed on my ftp site: > >ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/flicker_neon.gif >ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/flicker_neon.dxf > >a schematic that powers neon flicker lamps from a dedicated audio amp. >This circuit drives the standard decorative flame neon lamps with a >70.7 volt line transformer. The transformer is RS #32-1031B and costs >$5.95. > >They still flicker like they do when powered by the power line but, in >addition, they pulse to the beat of the music. > >You may be able to convince the inspectors that this is no different >than a PA system. (I'm assuming that a PA system does not have to be >installed by an electrician. I may be wrong here) > >I've run 2 flicker lamps (all I have) off of my 1 watt output radio. > I went up to the attic and bought down 2 strings of C7 neons flicker lamps. I wired up the circuit to my 30W sub woofer amp. I could light all but 4 of the 14 lamps. You will need an amp with overcurrent limiting to protect the amp from the weird load that the neons present. My neighbors must have thought I was crazy listening to Toccata in D loud enough to shake the house;) But, you should have seen the lamps! - - - - - From: "Carl Cowley" To: Subject: Re: HALL: Re: Sequenced Candleabra Lamps Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 07:43:41 -0800 When Chris brought up the idea of having his lights in his candelabra come on in a sequence I thought it was a neat idea. I immediately went to work on a circuit to do it with my five light chandelier. Last night I got it all working. I used a PIC 16F84 ($5.50, though I could have used the $1.50 8 pin PIC for this - next time) because it's cheap and easy for me to program (somebody else also mentioned using this chip also). I hooked the five output pins that I was using to MOC3010 triac opto-isolators. The little three watt flicker bulbs pull so little current that the MOC3010 is fine all by itself, no other triacs have to be connected to it. The circuit is small enough that it fit easily in the bottom of my chandelier, an added bonus. The microcontroller automatically resets every time the power is turned on. I programmed my lights to have a three second delay before the next one turns on, I think it looks pretty nice - kind of like a ghost is lighting each one. Another nice thing about the low current draw is that I was able to use a transformerless design to power the microcontroller - just a couple caps, a diode, and a zener diode. The thing works great!! The whole thing cost less than $10 to build. Thanks for the idea Chris and I hope you got my private email about this!! If anyone is interested in the code or schematic drop me a line and I'd be happy to share. - - - - - From: "Carl Cowley" To: Subject: Re: HALL: Re: Sequenced Candleabra Lamps Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:09:54 -0800 For those who wanted a copy of the code I wrote and the schematic to my circuit to sequence the lights on my lamp using the PIC16F84, you can now find it at my pathetic Halloween web page. There is also a picture of my lamp and a close-up of my circuit board for those that are interested. Thanks again to Christopher (the isolated looney in Japan) for putting the idea into my head! Carl Cowley ccowley@accutek.com Web Page: www.accutek.com/ghelect/halloween - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: Re: HALL: Hard wire control with VOX Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:15:55 GMT Hi jerry, How about using a simple solid state relay. They can be picked up for about $5 at mail order surplus stores. See the schematic lamp on my ftp site. For this application you don't have to use a transformer but can control 120Vac directly. ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.gif or ftp://ftp.bjt.net/users/jfosse/lamp.dxf chills, jim f >jerry writes: > no.... > >Example: zombie pop up with OAR and a scream that plays in sync. >It must pop up 2 seconds AFTER a pir is tripped. It pops up with a scream, >then drops down for 10 seconds before being activated again. > >Here is how: Pir triggers a relay for 5 seconds . >This Relay feeds the tape player with electricity for 5 seconds. >The tape has two channels. ONE channel is with sound, the other has a BEEP >on it to activate a VOX. Tape plays for 2 seconds with no sound >thus no action. Beep plays at the same time that the sound on the tape >plays. The SCREAM triggers vox that triggers a relay that pops up the jumper. >The BEEP triggers a vox that triggers a relay that keeps the tape player feed >with electricity until 10 seconds has passed (10 seconds of a BEEP) > This stops the tape at the beginning of >the cycle. I have used this kind of "clever" hard wired control system >(with the VOX ) for over 15 years. >The only bad thing is it has keep me from playing with >computer and integrated chip controllers. >I did this because of the price of controlers back then. >Now that such things are cheap, >I do not have the background to use them right now. > >The other problem is the vox. Ready made one for PA switching is $100 >and cheap kits are still $20 plus a lot of work. - - - - - From: mrscary at kiva.net Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:25:45 -0500 Subject: Re: HALL: fire At 12:04 PM 4/1/98 +0900, you wrote: > >OK next project! I have a great fireplace in the middle of my haunt (living >room) and would like it to spontaneously ignite. Does anyone have any ideas >for this. It does not necessarily have to by real fire, but if some has an e >asy and safe way please let me know. I was watching the new Shining (Stephen >King) on tv last night and they did this effects. > >Christopher >Isolated looney in Japan Without going into why real fire is a bad idea..... A great effect is scrim cloth and a blower....The Morris book describes this -very- complex operation. ;) Seriously, it's simple, and looks real...Much better than a real flame. On another note, go to the "fake-fire" dept of a home decor store...Take a look at the "amber" logs...Not much more than a dichroic-color foil drum and a couple flickering bulbs behind ceramic logs. (Ever seen those fake "lit" cigarettes? Same idea.) Flames can be duplicated in fireplaces safely. No need to use the real thing. - - - - - Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 23:24:11 -0500 From: Dwayne Sanburn Subject: Re: HALL: battery-operated flicker lights John Kochefko wrote: > > I'm looking for a mail-orders source for those little, flickering, battery-operated lights we used to put in pumpkins. Theatre Effects has them. I just got one and put it in an old lantern. It looks great. (301)-791-7646 - - - - - From: TDDoggett at aol.com Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 10:46:26 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: outside lighting We use dimmers or color organs on everything.Ê Most of the lamps in the ABS fixtures are 50W PAR 38.Ê We use a 120V MR16 for a special effect which has a very limited duty cycle. These are all outdoors. There are three different flicker systems at the Hallowed Haunting Grounds.Ê The first uses a set of about twenty blinking miniature christmas bulbs to vary the current through a set of constant bulbs which are visible.Ê Five or six of these circuits are distributed throughout the show to reduce the probability of seeing two candles flickering simultaneously. This year we also used Bruce Hively's flicker unit for our "illuminating ghost" and other effects.Ê We also use the R.A.Gray LDM (light dimmer module) for one effect.Ê The LDM is a 10A 120/240V dimmer with 0-10VDC or autoramping controls and a built-in flicker function.Ê It is about $250 new. (I try to never buy anything new.) Another interesting 120V flicker system is the Monarch Synthaflame device which is intended to be used with architectural fixtures, is small enought to fit in an outlet box,Ê and comes in 1, 3 or 5 channel versions for about $120-$150.Ê Monarch Lighting-Synthaflame 3601 West Macarthur Boulevard # 901, Santa Ana, CA 92704 (714) 641-5678 - - - - - From: TDDoggett at aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 04:43:05 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: Re: Monarch Flicker Circuits I do not know of any specific installations.Ê I have seen demonstrations of the one and three channel versons.Ê They look quite good..Ê The flicker rate is not adjustable.Ê The flicker depth is selectable by DIP switches.Ê The multi-channel versions are set up so that the total light level from the circuits is constant which, in a single multi-light fixture, will give a feeling of motion without a significant variation in the light level.Ê In a message dated 4/21/99 1:32:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bhively@eccentronics.com writes: > >Monarch Lighting-Synthaflame >Ê >3601 West Macarthur Boulevard # 901, Santa Ana, CA 92704 >Ê >(714) 641-5678 >Ê >ÊÊÊ Wow, Tim.Ê I am surprised that this one eluded me.Ê Anywhere around >Ê here that has these installed, that you know of??Ê I would love to see >Ê the effect.Ê Will have to ring them up and see if I can get some white >Ê paper on them.Ê Thanx, meng. - - - - - From: "Esch, Michael A" Subject: HALL: NEED HELP!!! Flicker circuit vs Denny's Thunder and Lightning box Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 10:53:41 -0700 Gang, When you build the flicker circuit (Pirates of the Carribean/Thunder Mountain/Haunted Mansion lights) based on the plans in our archives, that only works for one bulb. So I thought, what about using Denny's (Terror By Design's) Thunder box that I bought?ÊÊ Hypothetically, If I connect a string of light bulbs and isolate the box/stereo playing a low sound so no one can hear it in the haunt, This SHOULD keep them flickering right? Just thought this would solve my problem with making a zillion indivdiual circuits for my haunt VS stringing 5 or 6 bulbs in different fixtures connected to the one box? Seems a lot easier that way. - - - - - From: scooby-scooby-doo at juno.com Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 08:12:41 -0600 Subject: HALL: Fake fires~Their missing something!! In haunted houses their are the fake fires...but I never see hot coals! For everyone who uses fake fires in their haunts here is a great way to make it look like you have coals at the bottom of the fires- Have an orange light, that is at the bottom, put the clear marbles over them and walla! or to make an errie effect they sell clear marbles on a hair bands- have a small size light and make the hair band move around it looks real weird! Found this effect out in the car. Inside the car their is that digital clock (ours in orange). My mom had the hair band with marbles in the car~ And their is where the effect comes from - - - - - Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 11:16:39 -0700 From: Pete McBride Subject: Re: HALL: Fake fires~Their missing something!! >In haunted houses their are the fake fires...but I never see hot coals! >For everyone who uses fake fires in their haunts here is a great way to >make it look like you have coals at the bottom of the fires- > >Have an orange light, that is at the bottom, put the clear marbles over >them and walla! A good effect. I've also found that slightly-crumpled tinfoil, with a sprinkling of ash, has a very good effect , especially if you tuck it inside nooks and crannies of the bonfire/brazier/coal-pit/ex-witch you are trying to make burn. I'm thinking the combination of the two would be really cool. Through in a little fan and some yellow/orange cellophane and you're cookin' with gas! (or not, as the case may be!). - - - - - Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 16:35:16 -0600 From: Willy Mammoth Subject: HALL: Fake fires--quick and dirty version Our witch's cauldron used a fake fire effect. We lined the bottom of the cauldron (geranium planter) with aluminum foil, put a small Rubbermaid trashcan with dry-ice and water inside on top of the foil, then arranged a 7-bulb string of C-7 twinkling Christmas lights--we found that 6 red/1 yellow worked best--around the trashcan on top of the foil. Voila! Fiery smoking cauldron. The year we did The Inferno, I put the same set of Christmas lights in a small brass pot and balanced a couple of handfuls of crumpled yellow cellophane on the rim--looked just like glowing coals. - - - - - From: "Fields, Karl" Subject: RE: HALL: Fake fires~Their missing something!! Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:16:14 -0400 Darn laptops keyboards! Sent the last a little soon.... Or you can keep your eyes open at the thrift store. We scored a couple of those fake fire logs last month. These are the ones with artificial logs and a canister made of some type of colored celephane that rotates under the logs. I think I got them for $5 each. - - - - - Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:27:34 -0400 From: Raz Subject: RE: HALL: Fake fires~Their missing something!! At 11:16 AM 07/17/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Or you can keep your eyes open at the thrift store. We scored a couple of >those fake fire logs last month. These are the ones with artificial logs and >a canister made of some type of colored celephane that rotates under the >logs. I think I got them for $5 each. >Karl Hey- I got one of those! It's old but it still works ; ) I believe it use to be for those cardboard,fake fireplaces people without real fireplaces use to use at Christmas time. It belonged to somebody else who was going to get rid of it so I snatched it up just incase.... Haven't figured out exactly how I want to use it yet. - - - - - Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:50:52 -0700 From: Chuck Rice Subject: Re: HALL: Fake fires~Their missing something!! Another thing that works well is cellophane, real logs, and Christmas lights. The Christmas lights are small like glowing embers, and could also be embedded in the marbles Scooby discovered. They are also much cooler than regular light bulbs and thus safer. I used a small string of clear bulbs and it worked out fairly well. The picture does not do it justice since it was shot in daylight, but you can kind of see it at <http://www.WildRice.com/Halloween/1998/Tour06.html>. At night it looked great, but we really need a fairly random flicker circuit! - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: flicker circuit ideas? From: "Gareth Carthew" Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 12:11:15 +0100 AH! Yes I have built that circuit and it works great. I also looked at the Phantasmechanics flickerer, but was put off by the expence, and time consumption of building that project. Using the florecent tube starter gives a very good effect, different starters give a slightly different effect so experiment!! Gareth -----Original Message----- From: John Cassella To: Halloween List Date: 27 September 1999 22:53 Subject: Hall: flicker circuit ideas? > Hey I'm looking for a good and quick (we have 4 days till we >open) circuit to build a flicker >circuit that will do the same type of thing that is like in the indiana >Jones Ride In WDland >I looked up a quick plan for somethign on a "BackYard Imagineering >Page. > >http://www.hiddenmickeys.org/Disney/Imagineering/Imagineering.html > >which seems to have a pretty good solution but I was wondering if >anyone here has ever tried to build this >circuit and how it looks / works I also looked on >Phantasmechanics site and they have the flicker circuit there too but >that requires 2 lights to get it to look good. or so I am assuming >any insights ? ideas would be greatly appreciated :-) - - - - - Subject: Re: [Hall: Fake Fire (realistic)] From: Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 01:17:23 EST For my talking douglas which I gave her a fake fire.. and it looked cool = at night.. I put the cauldron on a block of wood to rais it up... then = wrapped a string of orange Christmas lights around the block of wood.. then after placing the cauldron on top.. I places short pieces of branches (4 to 6 inches long 1/2 thick.) around it to looke like kindling.. it looked = really awesome.. like the cauldron was on hot embers. and then to make it look really cool I hooked my fog machine up to the cauldron.. and put a green light in it.. so when the fog came billowing out of the cauldron.. it was = a nice green color. but the lights worked great for the flame. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Fake Fire From: "Mat Goebel" Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:24:44 -0800 Here are some idead: Take an artificial log, cut holes in it, put a belt around it and a motor. Turn on the motor and shine a low (A16 40watt) wattage bulb (with 'fire' roscolux#19 or Lee#019 gel) from under it up. supplement this with a par16 (rs#19 or Lee#164/179 gel) shining into a haze bank. this would get you smoldering logs with reddish haxe rising up. - - - - - Subject: Fake Fire Solution From: "Mat Goebel" Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:29:41 -0800 Just grabbed this from the stagecraft list which just happened to have a similat thread going with a similat problem: "This has been dealt with recently and in the past on the group. I just did a fire effect for our just completed production of Antigone and had wonderful results with flourescent starters and fabric. The father of one of our students is a volunteer firefighter and when he walked into the Aud. he was at first concerned that we had actual flames on stage. The basic flicker effect is created using a flourescent starter wired in series to an incan. bulb. You can gel "white" ones or buy lower wattage colored ones. Two or three of these will make a nice effect. You need to experiment with starters to see which ones will work with the bulbs. For a campfire you could make a ring of rocks to hide the starters and wiring. Place twigs and logs over and voila - campfire. You might need some foil backing to help reflect the light and something to mask the bulbs but I've been able to do with the wood in the past." - - - - - Subject: yet another fake fire solution From: "Mat Goebel" Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:33:14 -0800 another one from rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft: Well, we're in the middle of a two-week run of Camelot... The director decided to use some dramatic license in the next-to-last scene, and instead of Guenevere being led offstage to the stake to be burned, and then she being saved before it's lit, he wanted the stake to be ONSTAGE, have the fire LIT, and then have her be saved from it... Well, we tried flourescent starters, and it just didn't work for us... We wanted something more... So, enter the computer genius co-worker of my fellow lighting person... In two days, he programmed a chip that would randomly flicker (at varying speeds) eight outputs... All housed in an old PC case. These outputs were wired to eight silent (i.e. non-clicking) relays, to which were wired eight "clamp lights" (our terms for those little 60watt work lights with clips on them). All of this was hidden in the bottom of a 4'x6' platform, pointing upward. We also had 4 "constant" lights, too, for a glowing effect... Also in here was a fog machine. The lights were able to be dimmed via the board, so when the fire was "set" (noone actually lights the fire int he scene, though), it could be dimmed up to a dim flickering, a few puffs of smoke. Then brighter flickering, more smoke... She's saved, but we have to keep the effect flickering and smoking occasionally for the rest of the short scene... The fire is also the last thing to dim out at the end... I tell you, the flickering, reflected by the actress in a white dress, a white backdrop, the smoke.... Wow... And then when the chorus onstage is backlighted by it at the end... Double wow... And the lingering smoke on-stage is perfect for the pre-dawn battelfield setting of the final scene, and it dissipates and drifts off into the audience during the scene... Wow... Chills. That's one computer that's going to be around the theater for a while... (I think the director is getting ideas for future plays already... :-) - - - - - Subject: i'm not trying to be annoying, but... From: "Mat Goebel" Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:35:25 -0800 yet another solution; dont worry this is the last post in the thread: Last year, I was the assistant director for a college production of "Of Mice and Men." We wanted to have a fire on stage and tried many ways including sterno. What we finally ended up doing was not using any fire at all but the following process: We have a trapdoor to our stage, so we removed the trap door and made a new one out of plywood with about a 3-4 inch hole cut into it. We then taped strips of red and orange gels, as well as mylar around the circle with the strips falling into the circle. Below the hole, we had a fan and a fresnel with an red-orange gel on it. We had the fan and light patched into our circuitry so we could bring them both up at the same time. Then, we placed wood overtop of the hole and turned on the light and fan, which then made the gel and mylar strips flicker. >From the house, it appeared that there was a real fire on the stage, however, it was smokeless, but this suited our needs. For added effect, we had a spotted fresnel from overtop of the fire which would pulsate and create a small glow around the fire ring. The light from beneath the hole created nice lighting/shadows on the actors' faces and really looked good. If you have any questions, please feel free to email me at: delmont43 at earthlink.net - - - - - Subject: Flicker bulbs From: "Dan Oelke" Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:23:00 -0500 We have been on a hunt for flicker bulbs. I also know that someone here recently asked about battery power flicker bulbs. So, I figured that I would post what I have found. I have bought none of these products so use this only as a list of websites for future reference. Flicker Lightbulbs: http://www.nationalartcraft.com/electrical.htm $0.90 each (qty 10) w/ $25 minimum order (other electrical parts too) http://store.yahoo.com/ebulbs/declamflam.html $0.99 each http://www.chazpro.com/lighting/lighting3.html $4.95 - ouch! http://www.christmastreehill.com/flicflamcanb.html $1.99 each http://www.abclights.com/ligbulflicfl.html $3.49 or 25 for $64.75 http://www.amazinglightbulbs.com/flickerflame.html $3.75 to $6.00 For battery operated candles: There is a nice FAQ on flickering candles at: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/theatre/stagecraft/faq/section-35.html (which points to a couple of the other sites listed here. http://www.lighting-tech.com/ - carries a line of products http://www.citytheatrical.com/candle.htm - interesting looking product - = $40-$50 - - - - - Subject: Flourescent starter burn-out? From: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:21:44 EST I've been lurking around the list for a while now, and going through the archives for all the juicy info that's gone before, and I just now = switched off of digest mode (God help my mailbox). Anyhow, since one of the topics = floating around is one that I've had a question about, I just thought I'd = pop it out for my delurking. I tried out that flourescent starter flickerer (it was so cheap I couldn't = afford Not to try it!). Anyhow, I used a 15/20 watt starter with a 7 watt = bulb, but I found that after a few hours of operation, it got frozen into = a steady light. So, glad that they sell them in two packs, I opened up the other one and watched it work, and I'm no electrician by any means, but it = consists of two components, one of which resembles a tiny flicker flame = bulb, only with a purple "flame", and this seems to work as a switch. But on = the broken starter, it looked like the switch inside it had fused, and the = whole thing looked burnt. So my question, could I help avoid this problem by using a 4 watt bulb, or = is it simply a matter of prolonged use in the starter? And if so, could I somehow keep the switch cool, or would I just have to use an on/off work cycle? Okay, so that was a couple of questions. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Flourescent starter burn-out? From: "Jim Kadel" Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 10:32:56 -0500 Thomas, One word =3D> "statistical life testing results needed" ..well at least = its one idea If you were using a 15/20 watt starter with only a 7 watt bulb it seems to me that there may be a problem of "reasonable life" in using this idea. This way of achieving "flicker effect" seemed great to me at first, after trying it, with a similar type bulb and a 40 watt starter for only a limited time. I will go back now and bench test for over 24 hours to see what happens. Anytime, and we haunter/hackers do this constantly, you use a device in a way that it was not originally intended, you run the risk of early death (appra po though it be :>) You may also have experienced a fluke chance failure (altho I doubt it). So it behoves, all cloven feet folk out there, to do some long term testing with the lamp starter idea, and report results back to the List. Jim =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REF = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D At 04:21 AM 03/17/2000 EST, you wrote: >I tried out that flourescent starter flickerer (it was so cheap I = couldn't >afford Not to try it!). Anyhow, I used a 15/20 watt starter with a 7 = watt >bulb, but I found that after a few hours of operation, it got frozen into = a >steady light. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Flourescent starter burn-out? From: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:05:27 EST I think your right that it just overheated and fused the thingymajiger and = the whatamacallit together. Using the 4 watt bulb might work but if you = find someone who knows electronics and show them the specs on the package they = can tell you for sure. - - - - - Subject: Flourescent starter burn-out? From: Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 04:21:44 EST I've been lurking around the list for a while now, and going through the archives for all the juicy info that's gone before, and I just now = switched off of digest mode (God help my mailbox). Anyhow, since one of the topics = floating around is one that I've had a question about, I just thought I'd = pop it out for my delurking. I tried out that flourescent starter flickerer (it was so cheap I couldn't = afford Not to try it!). Anyhow, I used a 15/20 watt starter with a 7 watt = bulb, but I found that after a few hours of operation, it got frozen into = a steady light. So, glad that they sell them in two packs, I opened up the other one and watched it work, and I'm no electrician by any means, but it = consists of two components, one of which resembles a tiny flicker flame = bulb, only with a purple "flame", and this seems to work as a switch. But on = the broken starter, it looked like the switch inside it had fused, and the = whole thing looked burnt. So my question, could I help avoid this problem by using a 4 watt bulb, or = is it simply a matter of prolonged use in the starter? And if so, could I somehow keep the switch cool, or would I just have to use an on/off work cycle? Okay, so that was a couple of questions. - - - - - Subject: Flourescent starter...I'm lost... From: "Bill Smith" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:21:07 -0800 Hi! I was hoping you could help me. I purchased a fluorescent light starter can, with the little mount, and wired that inline to a table lamp cord, expecting that when I plug it in, I would get a nice flicker effect. Instead, I get nothing. The starter is rated for 15W, 30W and 40W. I have a 60W bulb in the table lamp. What am I doing wrong? There was absolutely nothing, no overheating, no popping sounds, nothing. Any suggestions? Do I need a ballast? I guess I'm a little lost. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Flourescent starter...I'm lost... From: "Jim Kadel" Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:52:18 -0500 Bill, Your starter is rated at a maximum 40 watts but you had it on a lamp with a 60 watt bulb. So I'd guess that you fused (melted) the little thermal switch in the can, that's supposed act as a power interrupter. When using these starters as a flickerer of incandescent lighting, you should stay well below the maximum wattage of the can. I've got one working for 48 hours now, rated at a maximum of 20 watts, but I'm using it to flicker a 7 watt, incandescent bulb. Jim =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REF = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D At 04:21 PM 03/19/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Hi! > >I was hoping you could help me. I purchased a fluorescent light starter >can, with the little mount, and wired that inline to a table lamp cord, >expecting that when I plug it in, I would get a nice flicker effect. >Instead, I get nothing. The starter is rated for 15W, 30W and 40W. I >have a 60W bulb in the table lamp. What am I doing wrong? There was >absolutely nothing, no overheating, no popping sounds, nothing. Any >suggestions? Do I need a ballast? I guess I'm a little lost. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Flourescent starter...I'm lost... From: Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 20:01:15 EST I had the same problem. you need a starter rated for 4, 6, or 8 W. The = ones rated higher won't work. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Flourescent starter...I'm lost... From: Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:33:15 EST I just re-read instructions for this flicker light at Phantasmechanics Online.There is a note reading "You want to use a starter anywhere from 4W = up to 25W. Anything over 30W is a waste of time. I've had a good mimic with = the 4, 6, 8W or 15-20W pushing a 45W bulb." I made one, it works great. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: $45 Flicker Bulb?! From: "Dennis Griesser" Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:18:09 PDT Rick has a neighbor... >Yesterday, he >told me that he just ordered a special flicker bulb that Disneyland uses >for >some of their "Candlelight" shows. It has 3 small bulbs inside of a = larger >one and is controlled by a computer chip...and it costs $45! I haven't = seen >this bulb, but he says that from a distance, it looks like a real flame. I remember seeing that while surfing about a year ago. >rummage< I know it's in here, somewhere. >rummage< Don't open that closet, McGee! >rummage< >crash!< Here it is: It consists of a "flame" made from lamps embedded in tinted silicone; the circuit; and candle body. It runs off of a 9V battery. $30 for a complete candle, $25 for a "flame" and circuit, or $12 for a spare flame. The original used incandescent lamps; a newer version uses LEDs. Here's a different one - "A wireless candle that will last 1,000 hours on two AA batteries." - $5.95 Certainly not as good, but very inexpensive. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Jim's new pictures! From: "Jim Kadel" Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:23:34 -0400 LD, Hmm.. well I do hope that the "Golden Rule" applies to this request :>) Oliver Holler's "one minute" flicker light was an ingenious combining of commercially available electrical parts to make an incandescent lamp flickerer. This would really be well explained with a photo (I don't have) of the electrical parts, separately shown, and then plugged into each other. = It took Oliver about one minute to connect all parts and get it working. Indeed it is the *combining* of available parts that was Oliver's creative = input, as the idea of using a neon flicker bulb to drive an incandescent through the use of a cadmium sulfide (light/dark) cell was, to my knowledge, originally proposed by Doug Fergusion several years ago. From memory: He took a *standard incandescent bulb socket* (not one of those smaller = night lights) that has a light sensor on the side, the kind that turns "on" at night and = "off" during the day. Then he screwed into this socket one of those screw in receptacles, so you = could *plug a lamp cord* into it. Next he took a neon flicker bulb and with it screwed into its own socket = he used at least one or more other electrical sockets to plug everything into each other so = that the flicker bulb was mounted right next to the sensor on the above incandescent socket. Now with this arrangement plugged in, any lamp plugged into the = incandescent lamp socket would flicker in synch with the flicker bulb. In other words the "flicker" from the neon bulb causes the light sensor to turn its socket on/off .. clever eh? I'll give Mom, Pop or Doc Fright a chance to answer your other question. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Flame From: "Haunter" Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:24:24 -0700 (PDT) How about this, it has been mentioned before, use a fan to blow silk, colored red and orange, strait up and some colored light bulbs for the actual light. The fan blows the fabric up causing it to dance, the fabric is cut with a jagged edge and the bulbs are placed below the fan to shine the light up onto the fabric, as it dances, it will look like flickering flame. - - - - - Subject: Re: Flame From: Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 20:13:45 -0500 I have tried the flicker bulbs. Not too impressive. They don't give = enough light and are too "distinct" (they just look like light bulbs!). I am going to try colored cellophane this year. I have found red, orange, and yellow. I am going to cut it with jagged edges, hot glue it to strips of wood, light it from behind, and blow air from underneath. You can also use colored silk, but I am hoping the cellophane might create the = crackling sound of a real fire as it ripples in the breeze. I have wondered if silk may be too heavy to lift it using a small fan at a distance or blown = through a vacuum hose. At any rate either cellophane or silk will probably be better than just = the flicker bulbs. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Flame From: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:52:27 EDT Actually using cream or white colored silk works the best. They had a few = different versions of flames at the show in Chicago in March and they all used cream color silk. The silk was attached to a small fan and the fan = was hidden in a decorative container. It appeared that small lights were = hidden in it too with the colors of the lights being 2 or 3 small yellowish = orange bulbs and one blue bulb. The silk appeared to be roughly a triangle that = was attached to about 2/3 of the outer edge of the fan. I hope this helps - - - - - Subject: RE: Flame From: "Ben Krakowsky" Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:56:07 -0700 (PDT) I agree about the silk. If you can find some way to blur people's view, it will look even better. This could be done with tear gas or pointed sticks, but perhaps a more humane way would be putting a sheer curtain (or translucent plastic) between the flame and the audience (obviously not blocking the rest of the prop). One way I've seen of recreating both the flickering movement and the sound of flame is by having what looked like a piece of silver christmas garland (only stiffer, perhaps alluminum foil through a paper shredder might work) on a rod that was spun by a slow motor and brushed up against a piece of stiff celophane. This reflected a coloured light. Hope this will give someone an idea. By the way. I still haved not started work on Halloween. I am pathetic, I know. Envious too. I'm still not sure where I can do a haunt this year. Argh! I'm running out of time very quickly! - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Re: Flame From: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:57:02 EDT Jim you can use very light scarf silk. I usually just look for used silk scarfs at tag sales or the local Goodwill - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Another How-to? From: "Wraith" Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 18:32:00 -0700 Chickie-Boo, Are you referring to these directions? -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Bed of Coals Here's how I made a bed of coals for a dungeon scene once. First build a box big enough to house the effect in, ours was 6' long by 3' wide by 4' high. Since this particular box was for a rack, it was made of 2x4s and = 1/2" ply. The top was framed with the 2x4s with the wide part against and = inside the plywood. We also built a rack out of 2x4s and 1 1/2" doweling = suspended above the box. Paint the box in appropriate colors. Next, sandwich translucent white plastic below ripple plastic (the kind used in shower doors) and mount under the 2x4 top framing in the box. For the lighting effect: Place a single 4' flourescent lamp, with a red sleeve covering the lamp, in the bottom of the box. For this next part, you will need; an = amber light, ceramic light socket, tin can, a/c electric clock motor, some 1x6 white wood. JB Metal Weld epoxy. Take the open tin can(make sure it's big enough for the amber bulb to fit in comfortably in with room to spare) cut elongated leaf shapes into the sides and drill a hole in the center of the bottom just big enough for the clock motor shaft to fit into. Epoxy the motor shaft onto the can making sure the alignment is straight. We don't = the can to wobble when it rotates. The 1x6s are used to make a "U" shaped housing with the light socket and the motor assembly mounted on opposite arms, with the light centered inside the can. Use screws on the socket = side of the housing for ease of changing lamps. Place housing in the center of the bottom of the box. To make the coals, wad newspaper into balls = slightly smaller than fist size and crumple the heavier industrial aluminum foil around them. Spray the top half of each coal with black barbeque paint and arrange on top of the ripple plastic with the shiny sides down. -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- I happily sucked up that one and saved it to my hard drive with all the other illusion how to's. I thought that I had said thanks for it, but it seems that post was offered up to the cyber gods. - Wraith mehart1 at juno.com wrote: > Considering the lack of response from my last how-to post, I must ask. > How many of you want to learn how to make a realistic looking bed of > coals - with no coals and no heat. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Another How-to? From: "Canman" Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:30:06 -0500 hello, take the red decrotive "lava rock"...you can get it from home = depot...if your willing to pay shipping I'll send you some. paint it black..then around the edges just touch it with some grey paint. place it on some clear red and yellow plastic "gel"sheets you can get them at most art supply stores.. place it all on a sheet of plexi ..add a light from beneath.. presto chango cold "HOT" coals - - - - - Subject: Hgh Ho Flicka Away! From: "Were Wolf" Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 00:20:35 -0400 (EDT) You know? I made several of these flickering lamps, and I'll tell you EXACTY how to make them AND the things you should use. 1: a Flourecent Starter Unit These are something that is being phased out these days because today the flourecet tubes have them built in. What these ARE are small silvery aluminum cans, with a black dot on one end two TINY copper looking contacts that look like that they belong on frankeinstien's neck, on the other, (well, thats what they look like:-) What is the best bulb to use with it? A yellow nightlight bulb works best, but white frosted is cool too. I know, I experemented with them last year, I got the burnt fingertips to prove it:-) Since the small bulb puts out less light, the flickering looks more authentic. I explained the whole thing last year, but I'm glad to write it again for those who are new this year. My technique allows you to hook it up to any lamp you want to flicker, like a table lamp, (but NOT a lamp with a transformer like a high intensity lamp, okay? These pull too much amperage and will fry the starter prematurely, (like in seconds, then you'll see some REAL flickers.) Heres what you need... A household extention cord. This has two wires only, and it can be as long as you like. (Get the longest you can.) a 20-fs starter' Starters are rated differently, but a 20 is the best, (the 'fs' stands for Flourecent Starter.) a base to put the starter in. SPECIAL NOTE The only bases for flourecent starters that I can find, were already attatched to a flourecent tube contact block. (Fittingly enough, this "contact block" is called a "tombstone" in electricians lingo, because this is the shape of the block. Cool huh?) With a little pursuasion, the starter base can be separated from the flourecent lamp tombstone by carefully setting the tombstone flat on its back on a sturdy surface, like a sidewalk or garage floor and smaking the daylights out of it with a hammer. You don't need it, you want the starter base:-) It may be advisable to wear eye protection, like sunglasses o deflect small flying pieces as you nail that puppy. Now you have a starter base with a nifty bracket to mount it with. it may also have a wire to connect it to the extention cord. You will also need two smaller wire nuts, or wire caps. These are one & the same, there are two names for the same item. They come in an array of different colors and sizes, so buy the small yellow type. Here, size DOES matter. You will also need black electricians tape. This is the vinyl type, not the expensive rubbery type they call "friction tape" alright? Take the extenion cord and chose a spot along the cord where you want to install the starter base. I suggest about two feet from the triple outlet end. This way you can tuck it under a couch or chair. Fold the wire in two here and mark it. Take a razor knife, oh, be sure the cord is NOT plugged in. We preffer NOT to have any casualties THIS year alright? Insert the razor knife in the groove between the two wires. if you do this carefully, you can separate the wires WITHOUT exposing the wire strands in the insulation. Once you got a good gap between the wires you can pull on the wires and separate them a good six inches. Now, cut either ONE of the wires. It doesn't matter which one you cut. Now strip the insulation of the ends of the cut wire about 1/2 of an inch. These will be the leads that you will use to connect to the starter base. Some bases may have wires on them already, and some have small little "U" shaped holes on either side. These"U" shaped holes are actually connectors that you just insert the twisted wire strands into and it grips the bare wires and won't let go. If this is the kind of starter base you have, then you WON'T need the wire nuts. Inset one wire in each "U" shaped hole, and insert & twist the starter into the base. It should stand in the base upright. If it does not stan perpendicular to the base, and is crooked, then one of those "frankentien neck contacts" is not in the hole like it's supposed to be. If you have leads on the starter base, then take one lead and one wire (stripped) and twist the bare ends together. Slip a wirenut over the twisted ends and twist that onto the wires until it's firm. Do the same to the remaining leads and you are just about done. I'm sure that some folks will have a starter base with only ONE wire,and a "U" shaped hole, push a stripped end from the extention cord into the "U" shaped hole, and twist the other extentin cord wire to the lead from the base, use a wirenut to connect the wires firmly like I wrote only a paragraph ago.. Now, to keep the wirenuts from fallig off accidentally, use the electrical tape. The thing with electrical tape is that you are "supposed" to streach it everso slightly as you wrap it around the wire and wirenut, covering the hole of the wirenut where the wires go into the wirenut, and the wires where they are inserted into the wirenut. Its probably a good idea to tape up the wire to the starter base after the starter is inserted into the base. The tape kinda holds the whole thing together, and helps prevent the Goblins, (sorry Goblin!:-) from pulling it apart. Test it by plugging in an ORDINARY TABLE LAMP into the extention cord. Plug in the extention cord, turn on the lamp, (give it a few seconds,) and it should start to flicker wildly. MOST hardware stores will carry a socket adapter that looks like the base of a standard light bulb, but inside is the socket for a NIGHTLIGHT bulb. These, unfortunatly are NOT very cheap, But are essential for the best effect. Use a 7 watt nightlight bulb, yellow if you can, and remove the bulb from your selected lamp. Here also, it's a Very good idea to UNPLUG the apparatus from the wall. Once the standard bulb is removed, you can then screw in thead adaptor base. Now, screw in the 7 watt, ( yellow if you go it,) bulb ito the addapter. Plug everything in and darken the room, turn it on and pat yourself on the back, You've got a flicker lamp! This effects unit DOES cause static on AM radios and television sets. Try not to plug the effect on the same circuit. If you don't know if it IS on the same circuit, turn on the tv and run the effect. If you see little white lines on the screen, or hear static in the sound, your on that circuit. Try another outlet, or wish you had converted a longer extention cord:-) The nice thing about this rig is that you can cause a string of those tiny christmas style lights to flicker as well. They'll all flicker exactly the same way. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Hgh Ho Flicka Away! From: "Jim Kadel" Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:27:16 -0400 Flickering Ghouls, I would add only one thing to Were Wolf's instructions. The starter units I've seen these days have either: 1) only one element (a thermal switch) or 2) two elements, a thermal switch and a capacitor usually # 2 is marked on the aluminum case "with capacitor" For the purpose of flickering incandescent bulbs, you want # 2 rather than # 1. - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Going to try the "gaslight flicker"... From: "David E. Basile" Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:40:47 -0500 Jim, I've tried this. I have a starter with condenser, 7 watt bulb and cord. Hooked them up like the diagram shows and nothing. The light won't even light. The hot side is on the starter and the bulb is good. The starter = is a 40-45watt. Any suggestions? David -----Original Message----- From: Halloween-L at WildRice.com [mailto:Halloween-L at WildRice.com]On Behalf Of Jim Kadel Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 12:15 AM To: Halloween List Subject: Re: Hall: Going to try the "gaslight flicker"... As an assist for anyone who wants to wire this circuit, I have a pictorial sketch at: http://home.rica.net/jimk/help/flicker.gif Please note this only works for small wattage bulbs ( 7 watts or so). These are the kind used at Christmas and for night lights. Also when purchasing a fluorescent lamp starter for this purpose, get the kind that has the words "with Condenser" on the side of the can. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Going to try the "gaslight flicker"... From: "Robert A. Spong" Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 16:41:49 -0500 The starter is rated WAY too high. Use a FS-2 or an FS-4. A 25watt starter could hold back a bolt of lightning! - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Going to try the "gaslight flicker"... From: "Jim Kadel" Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 17:20:49 -0400 David, It sounds like you're not passing enough current with a 7 watt bulb to = heat the thermal switch in the 40-45 watt starter. Inside the starter there's a = heater circuit, along with a thermal switch. Once heated, the switch closes, and lights = the light but also cuts off the heater. Flicker is obtained as the heater circuit and = thermal switch alternate action with an incandescent bulb in the circuit. You've got two options: 1) try a larger wattage incandescent bulb, one about 25 watts in place of = the 7 watt bulb because of your starter wattage. or... 2) Use the 7 watt bulb but with a smaller wattage starter (with = condenser), one rated for no more than 20 watts. Thanks for the reminder that there are those larger starters on the = market, and using one of these with a 7 watt bulb won't work. I'll add this info = to my diagram. - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Going to try the "gaslight flicker"... From: "David E. Basile" Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:44:48 -0500 Yep, that did the trick. I got a 4-20 watt and it works like a charm. Thanks for the help. David -----Original Message----- From: Halloween-L at WildRice.com [mailto:Halloween-L at WildRice.com]On Behalf Of Jim Kadel Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 4:21 PM To: Halloween List Subject: RE: Hall: Going to try the "gaslight flicker"... David, It sounds like you're not passing enough current with a 7 watt bulb to = heat the thermal switch in the 40-45 watt starter. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Flicker bulbs! From: "Peter Wood Productions" Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:04:18 -0400 I get mine from Home Depot. It is near the black light bulbs and the vanity mirror bulbs, and other specialty bulbs. They are about $3.00 I think. Target has them, but many Targets only have Christmas as a = seasonal thing (I work at one part-time), but when they are there they are a lot cheaper. And yes, I DO get an employee discount :) - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Flicker Bulbs? From: "Malcolm Little" Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:27:04 -0400 Flicker bulbs are candelabra shaped neon bulbs that 'flicker' similarly to a flame. They are only 3 watts or so, and don't emit a lot of light, but lend that eerie effect. We get them at Home Depot, Lowe's (in the specialty bulb section) and at Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart, and others around Hallowen and Christmas. -Malcolm > What are flicker bulbs? I saw someone state they put a > flicker bulb over a > candle and that totally confused me ... - - - - - Subject: RE: Howl - Low volt Flicker bulb? From: "Malcolm Little" Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 20:31:27 -0500 Here are some quick search results: http://www.inliten.com/candles/candles.html http://www.etecnyc.net/tci/howtos/electric_flame.htm There are a LOT of lighting/light effect/etc. links at: http://www.us-epanorama.net/lights.html - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Torches for Dungeon From: "Greg Narkunas" Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 08:26:39 -0800 Here is a manufacturer of fake (but realistic) torches http://www.lemaitrefx.com - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Torches for Dungeon From: "Malcolm Little" Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 09:04:19 -0500 I saw one of the torches featured there at a stage equipment dealer - they wouldn't take it down for me to see inside, but the guy there told me how it was built. They evidently use a couple of triangles of fabric (silk-ish) above a computer-type muffin fan, with two red lights - one on each side shining up, and the magic ingredient... one BLUE light underneath. It looked to me like there should be some white light too, but that's not what I was told - I'm pretty gulliable though... If you have trouble getting the 'products' page to load, try this link: http://www.lemaitrefx.com/new%20products.htm - - - - - Subject: Re:Torches-how to make From: "Tim Cahoon" Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 19:29:22 -0500 Hope this helps!! Here is the text of a message I wrote several months back after seeing a Le' Flame product at a store. ******* A few months ago people were talking about making a fire effect using lights, a fan, and silk.Ê I tried to imagine it but today I saw the real thing and WOW!!! At the Pegasus Light & Theatrical garage sale (I spent wisely and too much) they had in the new stuff display a fire effect called LE FLAME'. It was a bowl about 10"-12" in diameter hanging from 3 chains.Ê out of the top of the bowl was active, flickering, flames about 6" high. looking closer it was silk lit up by lights with a fan under it.Ê Even close up it looked real!! How it was done.Ê There was a 4" fan in the bottom (like found in computers) blowing air upwards (if there was a hole in the bottom of the bowl I don't know, didn't look). in the center of the fan was a small blue light (small bright bulb in a reflector). above that were 4 parallel rows of silk. The two interior rows were 4-6" in height and were the main body of the flame. Cut sorta jaggy to pointed when getting to top.Ê The outer two rows were 2-3" high and were the outside of the flame. Jaggy all around. (picture these 4 rows of silk forming a rectangle 4-6" long by 3" wide).Ê At opposite corners of this rectangle there were yellow/orangish bulds in reflector (just like the blue one) that shined the light across and up the silk on their side of the bowl. The silk appeared to be a off-white to white-yellow-orangeish color.Ê Now as the fan moved the silk (at a fairly aggressive rate)it would move in and out of the beam of light on its side, in the middle of the silk it would pick up a little of blue to make it seem soo real. Hope this makes sense.Ê The person doing the Egyptian theme might want to check this out as it would be perfect. - - - - - Subject: Le Flame From: "Roger Rose" Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:13:27 -0800 (PST) Hi all-- Was able to lay my hands on a copy of the sales brochure for Le Maitre's Le Flame unit [for sale for $300 in L.A.(OUCH!!)]. I've posted the specifications & diagrams from the back, as well as the ad copy & some pictures. The info is at: http://members.nbci.com/dragon_rose/lemaitre.html - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Fake Torch Flames From: "Greg Miller" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:35:20 -0800 I found the Torch Light being sold by another company that I CAN vouch = for. I buy my equipment from them often. Here's their website.... http://www.pssl.com/ And look for item number TORCH-LIGHT 01 It's still $99, and I still haven't seen it in person yet. If I want one though, I'm still considering making my own..... (famous last words) - - - - - Subject: New fake flame From: "Roger Rose" Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:54:36 -0800 (PST) Hi-- I was on my way home from a gathering, and drove by the lighting effects place where I got the Le Flame brochure. In the window were not one but two larger flame units. The flame is a single sheet of silk about four feet tall and about two feet wide. The base unit is about two feet wide by about three feet tall by about one foot deep. there seem to be two blue bulbs on one side of the silk and four orange bulbs on the other side. I will try to get more info on this large unit and will post it when I can. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: New fake flame From: "Jim Kadel" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 01:39:49 -0500 Has anyone ever seen the fake flame (fan, silk, with org and blu lights) done with some fog machine smoke as well? Seems to me a natural way to get even more realistic fire effect. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Silk flames From: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:50:54 -0800 > Pollogeist > Did you notice how the silk was used?< Lesee if I can describe it adequately. Two pieces of silk cut in similar tall rounded triangles (point in the center) with tabs on the bottom corners. The tabs were velcroed to the fan in opposite corners so that the pieces of silk stretched across the fan diagonally from corner to corner with perhaps an eighth of an inch gap between them with the tall point in the center. There was a small blue gelled spotlight in the center of the fan pointed straight up. Two small amber gelled spotlights, one behind and one in front, point up at an angle to light the upper part of the silk; one points to the left side, the other to the right side of the silk. With the blue spot the flame effect looked like a gas flame. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Torch Light EXPOSED! From: "Jeff Brown" Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:15:35 -0800 At 11:59 PM 02/16/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Jeff what is the flow rate on the fan and how big is the opening thanks = in >advance. > >Fenris HEY! When I signed up they promised me THERE WOULD BE NO MATH! Sorry. I'm OK now... There is no flow indicated on the fan, and I don't have the proper test equipment, but... The label says: Manufacture (obliterated by the blue light) Model 12038A1, Part # 12038A1-HS, Voltage 100-115 VAC 50/60 hz, Current 0.22-0.17amp. The opening is 5" x 3" with two little tabs 1 1/2 x 1 inch in opposite corners. THIS IS PROBABLY AN IMPORTANT POINT that I didn't notice before, that this might create a vortex for the air flow. Thanks for noticing this.... - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Torch Light EXPOSED! From: "Rucker Posey" Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:45:04 -0500 The fan needs to be around 100 cfm .,it is a muffin fan usually 5". - - - - - Subject: Silk Flames From: Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:48:18 -0800 Finally got the last element to make my homemade flame illusion, the silk. Only one store in this entire town carries the type of silk I needed. There are a lot of lighting stores to get the lights needed, dozens of places to buy muffin fans, but only ONE fabric store in the entire city carries the silk!?! Go figger. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Silk Flames From: Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:16:24 EST Pollogeist Try silk scarfs. I picked up a couple of them at a tag sale for next to nothing and they are the right weight and work really well. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Silk Flames From: Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 21:35:15 -0800 On Sat, 24 Feb 2001 23:16:24 EST CeLynn at aol.com writes: > Pollogeist > Try silk scarfs. I picked up a couple of them at a tag sale for > next to > nothing and they are the right weight and work really well. > > Mistress Celynn putting the "vamp" back into vampire > www.PhantomsInThePark.com I GOT the silk. It was $11.95 a yard. Got a half yard, plenty of flames Also picked up the MR-11 miniature halogen spotlights and am using gels from a Rosco swatch book to color them. - - - - - Subject: RE: Howl - Silk Flames From: "Jeff Brown" Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 22:25:28 -0800 At 05:29 PM 02/24/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Who's got a good instructions to make one of these silk "wonders"? It's not exactly an instruction sheet, but it is a detailed breakdown of the American DJ unit. http://www.timepasses.com/torch.html At least you can see the elements and placement. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Silk Torches info needed From: "Jeff Brown" Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:33:10 -0800 I've dissected one and posted it one my site: www.timepasses.com Click on Torch Light EXPOSED! Feel free to email me off-list if you have any questions! Professor Time (aka Jeff Brown) Professor Time's Nightmare University www.timepasses.com - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Silk Torches info needed From: "Malcolm Little" Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 13:30:25 -0500 You'll want to check this page: http://www.hiddenmickeys.org/Imagineering/Fire.html -Malcolm "Esch, Michael A" wrote: > > ALL, > I need as much info as possible about duplicating the fire/torches = effect > ala Pirates of the Caribbean. - - - - - Subject: Interesting potential Hallowe'en prop From: Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 13:27:32 EDT Hi All: ÊÊÊ Last night, my wife and I were at a restaurant, contemplating the = menu.Ê As my wife turned the page of her menu, she accidentially knocked = over the glass tube holding a small votive candle.Ê Immediately, we both = reacted; she reached the tube first and picked it up.Ê But, much to her = surprise, the tube wasn't hot.Ê "I'll be," she said as she looked into the = tube, "it's electric." ÊÊÊ And so it was.Ê A small, white plastic device, about the size of a = regular votive candle, with a "flame" from the top about 5/8" to 3/4" long = that flickered quite realistically. ÊÊÊ We looked at each other and said, nearly in unison, "These would be = great in a haunt." ÊÊÊ I took a look at the device a bit more thoroughly then asked the = waitress about them.Ê They're rechargable and last on a charge for about 3 = nights of use, around 6 or 7 hours a day, I guess.Ê They have a small jack = on the base for the recharger that also serves as an on-off switch.Ê And, = they're guaranteed to recharge for two years.Ê The "flame" looks like it's = made up of a couple of LEDs that flicker in a random pattern and, coupled = with the frosted glass in which the candles are placed, they produce a = very natural-looking fake flame. ÊÊÊ The last thing I was able to glean from looking these over was the = website for either the manufacturer or the distributer: ÊÊÊ http://www.norex-enterprises.com ÊÊÊ When we got home, I took a look at the website and finally found their = prices.Ê OUCH!!Ê They want $20.75 for ONE VOTIVE CANDLE!Ê And that doesn't = even cover their charger, which they want another $10 for!Ê The price = comes down a little tiny bit if you buy them in groups of 6 or 12, but = they're still incredibly pricy. ÊÊÊ I'd be sort of willing, though to purchase one to tear it apart and = find out how it was made, but I'd be mainly doing so via trial and error = (I'm a software guy, not a hardware guy!).Ê So, I turn to the list in the = hope that someone, somewhere, has seen these, hacked them, and knows how = to make one for (hopefully) a few dollars at most. ÊÊÊ If anyone can point me to more info on how to make one of these, I'd = really appreciate it.Ê And, if you've ordered some of these, I'd like to = know what you think of them. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: lightbulb paint - was - SilkFlame...so far From: "ctconnor" Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:34:49 +0000 Regarding light bulb paint, I think I'll try the krylon stained glass stuff. I did a little playing around with Future floor polish and dye (I used this with great results on a fake stained glass window). My thought now is to use one 25W mini spotlight with a two-tone painted color scheme. I used blue in the center of the spot and an amber color surrounding it. This actually seemed to work. The colors will of course mix but when the spot is placed below and angled up at the silk at a close range 6 to 12 inches there is a definite color difference. The only drawbacks so far are the density of the color/paint being too thin and the bulb being too bright. I think a dimmer is in order. I'll keep you guys posted on the Krylon thing. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Interesting potential Hallowe'en prop From: "Stephanie Lani Truitt" Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:17:05 -0700 Jon, http://www.srkconsulting.com/candles.html here's an interesting site.Ê Not quite what you are looking for, but there = are instructions given for these particular "electronic candles".Ê Might = help make some sparks. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Interesting potential Hallowe'en prop From: "Stephanie Lani Truitt" Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:24:07 -0700 Jon, these are interesting, too, but VERY expensive. http://www.eternalflamecandles.com/votive.htm - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Interesting potential Hallowe'en prop From: "Jerry Seiler" Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:01:21 -0500 For candlesticks, try http://earthsands.com/holiday/halloween/propscandlesticks.html - - - - - Subject: Torch From: "David E. Basile" Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:23:57 -0500 A while back there was talk about a torch light but the name escapes me right now but www.cheaplights.com has them for $74.00. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: Great Lakes Get Together From: Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:27:16 EDT Hi I will be posting the directions for my version of silk flames...Phantom Flames in the near future. The fabric used was a silk substitute called Silk Essence. You can find it at all Jo Ann Fabric shops. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: RE: faux fire From: "Tim Cahoon" Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:19:22 -0400 The lights were a little 3 string 120 volt set with on/off switch and the fan was 120volt. We cut light cord above the on/off switch and spliced the fan and lights to the now common plug using wire nuts. Now both the lights and fan use the same power source. Be sure the fan has a high air flow. It was found at the campsite that an 11watt or higher fan is needed to get the air flow required. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: RE: faux fire From: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:58:07 EDT If anyone has any questions about the Phantom Flames which we demo'd at KK and Mike's gathering, just email me. Yes, they did use a single cord. We eliminated the need for halogen lights which I thought were overpriced and I worried about the heat along with the fabric. I also used an inexpensive faux silk to cut the cost even more. They are computer muffin fans, but they are the type which doesn't need a transformer...again a cost cutting measure. I will be happy to help anyone who needs any info on my Phantom flames. Most of the items used you should be able to find at local craft or hardware stores. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: RE: faux fire From: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:59:46 EDT OOps forgot to mention...the lights were 2 orange and one blue. I = couldn't find lights which were the right color so I used night light style and painted them with glass paint. Michael's carries the glass paint. You = don't need to worry about the heat affecting them because the fan keeps them = pretty cool. - - - - - Subject: Re: Website for silk tourches From: "Joe Stone" Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 13:37:31 -0700 Su, > Well, guys the right hand forgot what the left hand was doing. I am = getting > the table top version of the silk torch for 48.00 but their website is = here > and prices include shipping. > http://www.entsyscorp.com/">Click here: Entertainment = Systems > Corporation I think that this (table top model) may be the way to go. I wasn't too = crazy about the pedestal or hanging model. The pedestal and hanging = models both have a 14 1/2" diameter bowl. The table top model has an 8" = bowl. But from the pictures, it appears as if the "flame" may be the same = with all three models (approximately 5" wide?). I'm waiting to hear back = from Bill at ESC to confirm this. I'd consider removing the flame from the = table top model and mounting it within your "fixture" of choice. Has anyone actually compared the different silk flame units in person (in = terms of their effectiveness)? Vulcan's Fire, Antari, American D.J., Le = Maitre, ... ? The units seem to vary quite a bit in price. Some units have = three lights, some have four. Some involve a single piece of silk, others = several. I've been considering building my own. I just poked around a bit. At least = one of the units is using MR11 20 watt lamps. These lamps can run $5. If = you have four lamps (three orange, one blue) that's $20. You still need = MR11 sockets. I assume that you need a transformer. You need fan (which = you could probably find surplus). And you need silk. $48 isn't bad. Again, = I'm not sure how the Vulcan's Fire effect compares to the other = manufacturers. Once you receive the unit, please pass along whatever details you can. = Ideally, you'd tear the thing apart and take pictures. :-) - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Re: Website for silk tourches From: "Brent Ross" Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 14:06:53 -0700 (PDT) I will have these on my store within the next couple of days, and I can = beat that price. Probably like $42-45.00 Brent www.deviousconcoctions.com Online store www.dcds.tv (in progress) --- Joe Stone > wrote: >Su, > >> Well, guys the right hand forgot what the left hand was doing. I am = getting >> the table top version of the silk torch for 48.00 but their website is = here >> and prices include shipping. >> http://www.entsyscorp.com/">Click here: Entertainment = Systems >> Corporation - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: RE: faux fire From: Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 21:02:07 -0400 Ditto. Step-by-step instructions would be greatly appreciated. Already bought a yard of "Silk Essence" at Joann Fabrics (about $2.99 sy) and I = have fans. Now for the lights... :) Tks - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - faux fire From: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 20:08:48 EDT Saw 2 different types of these in New York City theatrical lighting stores = this weekend (both on Canal Street). One type used poorly cut (IMHO) plastic "fire" in a black hanging witches cauldron. The fire was illuminated by a tiny flicker bulb and kept moving = by a tiny fan. Selling price was $150 PER unit (kind of expensive). The second type I saw only through the window of a busy shop (had to catch = our bus damn, but will be back in the future). Had to be the same or more expensive and looked to use silk or clear plastic with a variable color = bulb and tiny fan. This looked like real flame in daylight, from two feet away. = Damn me, but an anyone supply me with more info on this particular item. = It was beautiful! Beast Wishes~ Dave T Oh yeah, my wife bought a purse! LOL (But I had already spent over a $100 = on specialty magic books, so coming home with the flame pots was not an option...unless she bought a few more purses! :) - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - faux fire From: "Roy Taff" Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:24:40 +0000 I have a few minutes, so I'm going to put in what I've learned about making fake fires. I've made 2 and once you make one it's pretty simple. Mistress Celynn sold me one of her kits, but because I couldn't stay and attend her presentation at the PA Gathering I had to sort of trial and error (mostly error) my way through one. The one I make is big. 10 inches high, 10 inches wide. But the parts, for now, are available at Target, Home Depot and Fabric stores. First at Target you want to get an 8" non oscillating fan, although almost any fan works, and their large bulb string of 10 lights. Called "summer" lights, they were on sale for $6, and actually will make 3 flame kits. Also pick up some quick plugs, the ones you use to replace blown plugs, 2 will do. At the fabric store get about a yard of white or off white silk like material. The thinner and looser the better, I think I paid $1.99 a yard I think it was called "silk like?" had the word silk in the name. You also want glass paint. Specifically the colors blue and orange. At Home Depot you need small rectangular craft magnets, sold in hardware, and in the air duct area a reducer that goes from a 10" x 10" square to an 8" circle. About 10" high sold for about $5+. I'll try and find the official name. This is the case for the torch. The other parts are things all haunters already have, some 1/2" PVC, flat black and silver spray paint, some electrical nuts, the little ones,(also called wire connectors) and hot glue supplies. Tools include a PVC cutter, not a necessity, sheet metal trimmers, saw, wire cutter/strippers. OK I gotta' stop I'll write more later today. The funny thing is that a lot of these things are lying around most haunter's homes anyway. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - faux fire From: "Roy Taff" Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:03:25 +0000 OK, if you have the parts let's start. Fan Alterations: Take the base off the fan, you may have to cut it off. You should be left with the switch, leave the fan speed adjustment intact it can help to change the speed when tweaking the flame, the motor (don't remove the motor housing) and the fan. Take the front part of the fan cage off, it just gets in the way. Next cut 2 10" lengths of 1/2" PVC, these are going to be the mount for the fan inside the ducting. Look at the back of the fan motor housing, is there a logical place to hot glue the pieces of PVC onto the housing? You want the pieces parallel. 1 of my pieces is lower than the other, that's fine. Remember this isn't the science fair. Glue on the PVC so that the motor is centered on the 10 inches. Now lower the fan into the duct from the 10" side. Trim away PVC until the fan is below the lip of the duct and supported by the PVC. Once that's done, pull the assembly out and paint the fan blades and housing silver, lightly so you don't gunk up the motor. You want as much light reflected from the bulbs onto the flame fabric. Plus the light bouncing off the blades adds to that fluttery fire look. Remount the fan and, I glued it in place. COUPLE OF THANGS: #1 Why not get an 8" housing for an 8" fan? Well, fans, especially the cheaper ones, get most of their air from the sides not the back. So, when you enclose the sides the fan doesn't have enough thrust to hold the flame aloft. So the 10 x 10 housing gives it the "breathing space" it needs. I used an 8" housing for a 5" fan flame I built. #2 This flame should be viewed from below or at eye line. If the viewer is above the flame the illusion is ruined. So, the challenge is to mount everything right at the lip or a little below. Keep checking this, a light bulb even a little over the lip looks lousy. Light adjustments: The final project should consist of 4 or 3, 5 watt or higher bulbs on a string with one painted blue and the others orange. I haven't tried mini bulbs, but with enough of them it might work as well. The string purchased at Target had 10 bulbs so I could make about 3 flames with them. Cut the string at the end of the 3rd or 4th bulb, your choice, I used 3. These torches are not meant to be your primary light source. They're mood lighting, I tried brighter bulbs but they just tended to wash things out. But hey, experiment! Seal the bare wires with electrical tape or hot glue, DON'T connect them. If this is your first lamp then use the plug sold with the string. Afterwards attach new plugs to the remaining lights and you have a fresh string. Paint one bulb blue, I used 2 coats, after they dry, plug them in to see if you need more paint. The good thing if it's too much scrape it off and start fresh. Paint the remaining bulbs orange, only 1 coat needed. I used the Delta brand perm enamel paints. Didn't come with orange so I mixed red and yellow, worked fine. The paints came with prep coats and gloss coats included. I just used the paints straight and they've worked fine. Gotta stop. Will continue later. - - - - - Subject: PHANTOM FLAMES HOW TO From: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:56:40 EDT Materials List Flower Pot or urn 1 fan motor must be 110-115 volt, 14 watt 1 connector wire for the fan 3 light string with in-line switch 1 jar orange bulb paint 1 blue C-7 Xmas light 36 inches of L bracket used along the wall for dropped ceiling 2 yellow wire nuts 4 6-32x2 inch nuts and bolts Aluminum foil to line pot Spray on adhesive for foil 1 square foot of silk essence Duct tape Tools Hammer Screwdriver Tin snips Drill and bit set Wooden form for bending L bracket Utility knife Steps 1. Spray the inside of the pot with spray adhesive. 2. Line the inside of the pot with the aluminum foil, shinny side out to keep light from shining through the side. It also defuses the light and reflects it up. 3. Cut the L bracket into 3 pieces, 2 9 inches and 1 the remainder (18 inches). 4. Take the 18 inch piece of L bracket and pound it flat. 5. Cut the 18 inch piece of L bracket lengthwise down the center. 6. Drill 2 holes in both of the 9 inch pieces centered on the bracket and = far enough apart to line up with one pair of the fans holes. 7. Mount the brackets on the fan. They will be too long for the pot. 8. Trim the brackets until they allow the fan to sit in the pot about 1 = inch below the surface. The brackets should be cut at an angle to better match = the shape of the pot. 9. Once the brackets are properly trimmed, cover the ends with duct tape. = This will prevent them from shredding the foil. 10. Cut the light string half way between the switch and the first light = bulb. 11. Separate the wires on the two pieces you just cut and the fan = connector wire (if it is not built into the fan. 12. Drill a hole in the bottom of the pot, large enough to pass the light cord wire through. 13. Pass the wire with the switch through the bottom of the pot and = connect one wire from each set using the wire nuts. 2 sets (one switch wire, one = fan wire, one light wire wire nutted together). The connections should be at = the bottom of the pot. 14. Using the wooden form, bend one piece of the cut L bracket around the wooden form to make a triangle. Start on the longest side of the triangle = and use a hammer to make the corners tight. Cut the L bracket allowing = about 2 inches overlap. 15. Use duct tape to connect the two ends together and form a smooth = triangle. 16. Repeat steps 14 and 15. 17. Place the two triangles between the brackets attached to the fan. = These seem to be essential to insure proper airflow. 18. Attach the triangles together at the center using the duct tape. 19. Attach the triangles to the sides of the fan using duct tape. 20. Cut the silk essence in the shape shown in the pattern included. 21. Attach the silk essence to the corners of the fan brackets, centered above the fan. 22. Paint 2 of the bulbs with the orange bulb paint and place the bulbs in = the sockets. 23. Position the bulbs in the pot below the top of the pot until the = effect looks good. 24. Smile - - - - - Subject: PHANTOM FLAMES HOW TO From: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:57:34 EDT Materials List Flower Pot or urn 1 fan motor must be 110-115 volt, 14 watt 1 connector wire for the fan 3 light string with in-line switch 1 jar orange bulb paint 1 blue C-7 Xmas light 36 inches of L bracket used along the wall for dropped ceiling 2 yellow wire nuts 4 6-32x2 inch nuts and bolts Aluminum foil to line pot Spray on adhesive for foil 1 square foot of silk essence Duct tape Tools Hammer Screwdriver Tin snips Drill and bit set Wooden form for bending L bracket Utility knife Steps 1. Spray the inside of the pot with spray adhesive. 2. Line the inside of the pot with the aluminum foil, shinny side out to keep light from shining through the side. It also defuses the light and reflects it up. 3. Cut the L bracket into 3 pieces, 2 9 inches and 1 the remainder (18 inches). 4. Take the 18 inch piece of L bracket and pound it flat. 5. Cut the 18 inch piece of L bracket lengthwise down the center. 6. Drill 2 holes in both of the 9 inch pieces centered on the bracket and = far enough apart to line up with one pair of the fans holes. 7. Mount the brackets on the fan. They will be too long for the pot. 8. Trim the brackets until they allow the fan to sit in the pot about 1 = inch below the surface. The brackets should be cut at an angle to better match = the shape of the pot. 9. Once the brackets are properly trimmed, cover the ends with duct tape. = This will prevent them from shredding the foil. 10. Cut the light string half way between the switch and the first light = bulb. 11. Separate the wires on the two pieces you just cut and the fan = connector wire (if it is not built into the fan. 12. Drill a hole in the bottom of the pot, large enough to pass the light cord wire through. 13. Pass the wire with the switch through the bottom of the pot and = connect one wire from each set using the wire nuts. 2 sets (one switch wire, one = fan wire, one light wire wire nutted together). The connections should be at = the bottom of the pot. 14. Using the wooden form, bend one piece of the cut L bracket around the wooden form to make a triangle. Start on the longest side of the triangle = and use a hammer to make the corners tight. Cut the L bracket allowing = about 2 inches overlap. 15. Use duct tape to connect the two ends together and form a smooth = triangle. 16. Repeat steps 14 and 15. 17. Place the two triangles between the brackets attached to the fan. = These seem to be essential to insure proper airflow. 18. Attach the triangles together at the center using the duct tape. 19. Attach the triangles to the sides of the fan using duct tape. 20. Cut the silk essence in the shape shown in the pattern included. 21. Attach the silk essence to the corners of the fan brackets, centered above the fan. 22. Paint 2 of the bulbs with the orange bulb paint and place the bulbs in = the sockets. 23. Position the bulbs in the pot below the top of the pot until the = effect looks good. 24. Smile - - - - - Subject: Re: Halloween-L Digest #1759 - 01/07/12 From: "Terry Simmons" Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:00:29 -0700 At 07:36 AM 7/12/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Subject: Fake Flames instructions >From: "halloween13" >Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:36:55 -0600 > >Can someone send me the URL for the website which illustrates how to = build >the fake flames? > >Thanks, > >Leslie Leslie, Here are a couple of websites for fake flames as well as CeLynn's instructions for Phantom Flames that she sent out last month. Hope this = helps http://www.hiddenmickeys.org/Disney/Imagineering/Fire.html http://www.timepasses.com/torch.html Phantom Flames Materials List Flower Pot or urn 1 fan motor must be 110-115 volt, 14 watt 1 connector wire for the fan 3 light string with in-line switch 1 jar orange bulb paint 1 blue C-7 Xmas light 36 inches of L bracket used along the wall for dropped ceiling 2 yellow wire nuts 4 6-32x2 inch nuts and bolts Aluminum foil to line pot Spray on adhesive for foil 1 square foot of silk essence Duct tape Tools Hammer Screwdriver Tin snips Drill and bit set Wooden form for bending L bracket Utility knife Steps 1. Spray the inside of the pot with spray adhesive. 2. Line the inside of the pot with the aluminum foil, shinny side out to keep light from shining through the side. It also defuses the light and reflects it up. 3. Cut the L bracket into 3 pieces, 2 9 inches and 1 the remainder (18 inches). 4. Take the 18 inch piece of L bracket and pound it flat. 5. Cut the 18 inch piece of L bracket lengthwise down the center. 6. Drill 2 holes in both of the 9 inch pieces centered on the bracket and far enough apart to line up with one pair of the fans holes. 7. Mount the brackets on the fan. They will be too long for the pot. 8. Trim the brackets until they allow the fan to sit in the pot about 1 = inch below the surface. The brackets should be cut at an angle to better match the shape of the pot. 9. Once the brackets are properly trimmed, cover the ends with duct tape. This will prevent them from shredding the foil. 10. Cut the light string half way between the switch and the first light = bulb. 11. Separate the wires on the two pieces you just cut and the fan = connector wire (if it is not built into the fan. 12. Drill a hole in the bottom of the pot, large enough to pass the light cord wire through. 13. Pass the wire with the switch through the bottom of the pot and = connect one wire from each set using the wire nuts. 2 sets (one switch wire, one = fan wire, one light wire wire nutted together). The connections should be at = the bottom of the pot. 14. Using the wooden form, bend one piece of the cut L bracket around the wooden form to make a triangle. Start on the longest side of the triangle and use a hammer to make the corners tight. Cut the L bracket allowing = about 2 inches overlap. 15. Use duct tape to connect the two ends together and form a smooth = triangle. 16. Repeat steps 14 and 15. 17. Place the two triangles between the brackets attached to the fan. = These seem to be essential to insure proper airflow. 18. Attach the triangles together at the center using the duct tape. 19. Attach the triangles to the sides of the fan using duct tape. 20. Cut the silk essence in the shape shown in the pattern included. 21. Attach the silk essence to the corners of the fan brackets, centered above the fan. 22. Paint 2 of the bulbs with the orange bulb paint and place the bulbs in the sockets. 23. Position the bulbs in the pot below the top of the pot until the = effect looks good. 24. Smile - - - - - Subject: Silk Flames (New) From: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 02:54:49 -0700 I have added a new page to my web site which attempts to summarize the mo= st popular makes and models of silk flames. Go to, http://www.wickedbeernut.com/Halloween/index.htm and click on "Silk Flame". I had planned on building my own silk flame. I explain why I opted to pur= chase an Antari Diablo Flame Machine for $65 instead. I also include a pattern for the silks used in the highly acclaimed $200 Le Maitre Le Flame. The Le Flame silks are what really distinguish the Le= Flame from the other silk flames. I also scaled (enlarged) the Le Flame patterns in order to create silks which would work in conjunction with th= e Flame Machine. Of course, silks made from these patterns would work with just about any other commercial or homegrown silk flame and in my opinion= , greatly enhance the overall effect of the less expensive silk flames like= the Flame Machine. I hope that you find this information helpful. - - - - - Subject: Re: Silk Flames (New) From: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:34:17 -0700 Dug, >After viewing all the sites out there, and home-made instructions, I hav= e >a >question: >Halogen lamps burn very hot. How is the silk kept from bursting into rea= l >flames when the unit is turned off and it collapses on the lamps? This is best illustrated with Jeff Brown's Torch Light Exposed, http://www.timepasses.com/torch.html You can see that all of the quartz halogen bulbs are located under a safe= ty grill. When the unit is turned off, the silks lay on the safety grill. Al= l of the commercial models which I've seen (and the two I own) share this design. I did share this concern with respect to Rucker's ULTRA COOL silk flame! http://members.home.net/barbiegal7/halloween2000/vahaunt2.jpg in which the silks seem to be exposed directly to the quartz halogen bulb= s. - - - - - Subject: Re: Re: Silk Flames (New) From: "Rucker Posey" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:31:26 -0400 In response to the heat /safety question - the halogen lights I use are = the 20 watt MR11 flood bulbs which are warm but not as hot as many of the = higher wattage bulbs. Secondly , I use the bulbs that come with a glass cover = over them ( It's part of the bulb assembly ) . There is then a "gel" over that for color . In reality , even though they are warm , they are far from ignition points . You must also remember that while they are running they are being cooled and when you turn them off = they are no longer generating heat that would be harmful to the silk . I have used these on a regular basis for many hours now with zero problems . ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Halloween List" Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 1:34 AM Subject: Hall: Re: Silk Flames (New) > Dug, > > >After viewing all the sites out there, and home-made instructions, I = have > >a > >question: > >Halogen lamps burn very hot. How is the silk kept from bursting into = real > >flames when the unit is turned off and it collapses on the lamps? > > This is best illustrated with Jeff Brown's Torch Light Exposed, > > http://www.timepasses.com/torch.html > > You can see that all of the quartz halogen bulbs are located under a safety > grill. When the unit is turned off, the silks lay on the safety grill. = All > of the commercial models which I've seen (and the two I own) share this > design. > > I did share this concern with respect to Rucker's ULTRA COOL silk flame! > > http://members.home.net/barbiegal7/halloween2000/vahaunt2.jpg > > in which the silks seem to be exposed directly to the quartz halogen bulbs. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: Silk Flames (New) From: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 22:24:34 EDT Dug I had that same concern which is why I designed the Phantom Flames. = My design uses c4 Christmas light style lights. http://hometown.aol.com/celynn/page1.html - - - - - Subject: re: Ruckers silk flame. From: "Alexander" Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 05:46:21 -0500 WOW! I just saw the pics of Ruckers silk flame!!! I'd love some info on this. >Subject: Mort & Baron's VA Haunt Gathering Pics >From: "Rene Thurston" >Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 23:20:00 -0400 > >Geez, Mort, you're right ~ you DID have a lot of pics!! But here they >are! If I missed any, let me know as they all went in my email = attachment >folder with about 500 other attachments (I never clean out my files, dammit). > >Enjoy! > >http://members.home.net/barbiegal7/halloween2000/vahaunt.html - - - - - Subject: Re: Silk Flames (New) From: "Patrick Walstead" Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 16:24:52 -0500 They won't burn because they are made of silk, silk does not truly burn. Mantles used in coleman style lanterns are also made of silk. Re: Silk Flames (New) From: "Dougeebear" Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:20:16 -0700 After viewing all the sites out there, and home-made instructions, I have = a question: Halogen lamps burn very hot. How is the silk kept from bursting into real flames when the unit is turned off and it collapses on the lamps? - - - - - Subject: Re: Silk Flame (New) From: Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:50:33 -0700 Rucker, > In response to the heat /safety question - the halogen lights I use are= the > 20 watt MR11 flood bulbs which are warm but not as hot as many of the higher > wattage bulbs. Secondly , I use the bulbs that come with a glass cover over > them ( It's part of the bulb assembly ) . > There is then a "gel" over that for color . In reality , even though th= ey > are warm , they are far from ignition points . You must also remember that > while they are running they are being cooled and when you turn them off= they > are no longer generating heat that would be harmful to the silk . I hav= e > used these on a regular basis for many hours now with zero problems . I respect your opinion. All of the commercial silk flame units that I'm aware of also use 20 watt MR11 quartz halogen bulbs that come with a glas= s cover over the assembly. And all of the commercial silk flame units that I'm aware of still involve a safety grill. If I were to build my own silk= flame using quartz halogen bulbs, I'd incorporate a safety grill to separ= ate the silk from the bulbs and the fan. For those of you who are considering building your own silk flame using 20 watt MR11 quartz halogen bulbs, you might want to check out, http://www.cheaplights.com/cat.f/cat.p30/page30.html They sell 20 watt MR11 quartz halogen bulbs with orange and blue lenses (the glass cover is actually colored) for $4.96. Most of the commercial silk flames use these bulbs. You also might want to check out, http://www.microlamp.com/ They sell MR11 sockets with 12" leads for $5.50 and there is no minimum order. As I pointed out on my web page, http://www.wickedbeernut.com/Halloween/Html/silkflame.htm I opted to go with the $65 Antari Diablo Flame Machine which includes thr= ee 20 watt MR11 quartz halogen bulbs with orange and blue lenses, three MR11= sockets, fuse, transformer, power cord, switch, chassis and, yes, a safet= y grill. :-) I'm one who will normally tackle any project. I'm very impressed with Ruc= ker's silk flame. It's about as close to a commercial silk flame as you can get= .. I was dead set on building my own silk flame, but after I priced the part= s, I concluded that I couldn't build a commercial-grade silk flame for less than I could buy one. Rucker, Would you mind sharing with us how much you spent in building your silk flame? Fan MR11 Quartz Halogen Bulbs MR11 Sockets Transformer Fuse (?) Switch (?) Power Cord Chassis (?) Silk Safety Grill (?) :-) Misc. Hardware You may have found a better source for the parts than I did. Again, you did a wonderful job on your silk flame. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: Silk Flames (New) From: "Wicked Wanda" Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 00:12:35 -0400 I've seen Ruck's flames in daylight and darkness, and I have to tell you, when it starts getting dark out, you absolutely can not tell these flames are fake. The pics I took do not do them justice. But, I'm not objective--I like all of Ruck's props-- Wicked Wanda >I'm not positive but I suspect it is more fan (cfm) and more bulbs at a higher wattage . I made one with a 12" small diameter >squirrel cage fan from a copier with a single silk that didn't look too bad. Ask someone at the Va gathering what they thought >or an objective point of view . >Ruck - - - - - Subject: RE: fake torch lamps From: Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 08:50:16 -0700 PropBoy, > anyone ever build these lights that look like fire using lights and sma= ll >fans. They sell anywhere from $70-$125 a piece. Look very easy to build and >cool. I've been pricing out the bulbs and stuff. Anyone ever build one let >us know. Actually, the prices range from $48 to $200 and I've found the constructi= on of many of the commercial silk flames to be the same. I was convinced tha= t I wanted to build my own, but after pricing the "bulbs and stuff", I opte= d to go with the Antari Diablo Flame Machine for $65. I've put together a web page which contains information regarding the dif= ferent commercial silk flames, http://www.wickedbeernut.com/Halloween/index.htm It also includes a pattern for the silks used in the $200 Le Maitre Le Fl= ame. And I've recently added a link to Mistress Celynn's Phantom Flames and Ru= cker Posey's silk flame. I'm hoping that this page will serve as something of a silk flame FAQ, so= if anyone has more information regarding silk flames or links to other si= lk flame web sites, please let me know. Wicked Beernut - - - - - Subject: $30 silk torch at Spencers From: "Dennis Griesser" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:53:04 -0700 Here's the poop on the $30 silk torch at Spencers... It's made by VEI. Called "Hanging Mini-Flame", V-0106 dimensions: 4.5"x8"x8" Shape is more like a hemisphere, instead of a dish. Net weight 2 pounds. It's powered off of 110VAC, but the internals run on 12V. Doesn't feel heavy enough for a transformer, but I guess it has one! Light is provided by two (2) 20W MR11 lamps - orange. There are two silks, cut in jagged flame pattern, and mounted in an X. Velcro is used for the mounting, so you can adjust the tension, but that's about it - the other part of the velcro mounts to a tab molded into the plastic. - - - - - Subject: Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 From: "Dennis Griesser" Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:55:27 -0700 This is indeed shaping up to be the year of the cheap silk torch. We have hit a new low-point for commercial units, and the price will certainly continue to drop. Spencers now has a $30 unit from VEI. The style is a bowl hanging from chains. It uses two lamps instead of three, and looks pretty good. I'll try for a photo when my digital camera gets back from the shop. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 From: "Effie's Place" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:11:37 -0700 I just saw the large hanging bowl this weekend. Think it was going for = about $150! I did buy the table top model for $70 and it's pretty cool. I = could justify the $70.... it's double duty...luau this weekend and Halloween. Spirit of Effie ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Griesser To: HOWL2000 Mailing List Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Howl - Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 > This is indeed shaping up to be the year of the cheap silk torch. We > have hit a new low-point for commercial units, and the price will > certainly continue to drop. > > Spencers now has a $30 unit from VEI. The style is a bowl hanging > from chains. It uses two lamps instead of three, and looks pretty > good. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 From: "Brent Ross" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Thats cost on that unit. Quite a deal. Brent --- Dennis Griesser > wrote: >This is indeed shaping up to be the year of the cheap silk torch. We >have hit a new low-point for commercial units, and the price will >certainly continue to drop. > >Spencers now has a $30 unit from VEI. The style is a bowl hanging >from chains. It uses two lamps instead of three, and looks pretty >good. - - - - - Subject: RE: Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 From: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 17:38:51 -0700 Jack of Shadows, >This is indeed shaping up to be the year of the cheap silk torch. We >have hit a new low-point for commercial units, and the price will >certainly continue to drop. > >Spencers now has a $30 unit from VEI. The style is a bowl hanging >from chains. It uses two lamps instead of three, and looks pretty >good. That's a great price for the VEI hanging bowl, but Spirit of Effie report= ed seeing a large hanging bowl for $150. Is the $30 unit from VEI smaller? ESC seemed to have a running auction for the VEI units on E-bay. I rememb= er Su bought the table-top model for $48. The last time I saw the table-top model listed it was selling for $49. I seem to recall the hanging bowl wa= s $79? >I just saw the large hanging bowl this weekend. Think it was going for about >$150! I did buy the table top model for $70 and it's pretty cool. I coul= d >justify the $70.... it's double duty...luau this weekend and Halloween. >I'll try for a photo when my digital camera gets back from the shop. I'd appreciate whatever information you could pass along. In particular, I'd be interested in knowing if the $30 VEI hanging bowl involves quartz halogen bulbs. How many bulbs? Two orange, one blue? How big is the silk?= Is it one piece or two? Is the silk bullet-shaped or wavy? - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 From: "Dennis Griesser" Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 23:19:43 -0700 Me: > >This is indeed shaping up to be the year of the cheap silk torch. We >>have hit a new low-point for commercial units, and the price will >>certainly continue to drop. >> >>Spencers now has a $30 unit from VEI. The style is a bowl hanging >>from chains. It uses two lamps instead of three, and looks pretty >>good. Brent Ross >Thats cost on that unit. Quite a deal. I find that hard to believe. I saw the same unit in two stores, with no special "sale" signs around. Looks like the normal price. I suspect the VEI simply came out with a new, cost-reduced unit. And I would anticipate even more, cheaper units, as competitors cut each other's throats to get the sale... Wicked Beernut: >That's a great price for the VEI hanging bowl, but Spirit of Effie = reported >seeing a large hanging bowl for $150. Is the $30 unit from VEI smaller? Gotta be! This one is about the size of the bowl made by your two cupped = hands. >I'd appreciate whatever information you could pass along. I know you would! You have shown a great interest in this subject to date! And I'll do my best to help. >In particular, >I'd be interested in knowing if the $30 VEI hanging bowl involves quartz >halogen bulbs. How many bulbs? Two orange, one blue? How big is the silk? >Is it one piece or two? Is the silk bullet-shaped or wavy? Looks like two (2) orange halogen lamps. The picture on the box showed one lamp of each color, orange and blue, but the demonstrator was both orange. Two pieces of silk, crossing in an X. Cut with jaggies. Even my wife was impressed. "so, that's what all the fuss is about. Looks real!" - From 2 feet away. I should have pictures by this weekend, and additional technical details. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 From: "Dennis Griesser" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:52:02 -0700 >I suspect that you're right in that VEI likely came out with a new, >cost-reduced >unit, but I suspect that it's considerably smaller than the unit which = Brent >is referring to. Here is the response that I received from Bill at >ESC regarding >the VEI silk flames which they were offering on E-bay, > > "The Pedestal and hanging units both have a 14 1/2" diameter flame > bowl...the Table Top unit has an 8" bowl." > >A "bowl made by your two cupped hands" must be what, about 6" in = diameter. >I think that we're talking about a 14 1/2" hanging bowl vs. a 6" hanging >bowl. Perhaps they took the (small) table-top unit and just hung it from chains? Making it smaller is part of the cost-reduction dance - as is fewer lamps, and probable operation directly from 110VAC so you don't need a transformer. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - RE: Cheapest commercial silk torch so far - $30 From: "Effie's Place" Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:21:04 -0700 >That's a great price for the VEI hanging bowl, but Spirit of Effie = reported >seeing a large hanging bowl for $150. Is the $30 unit from VEI smaller? There were two hanging bowl models, one table top model and one wall = model. The one I bought for $70 is most likely the one Spencers is selling for = $30. The hanging bowls seemed to run in the one and two foot across area. Check out this site for other flame lights. Oh, if only I had won the lottery... http://www.djdistributors.com/torch%20lights.html http://www.10outof10.co.uk/acatalog/10_out_of_10_On_Line_Silk_Flame_Effects= _ 80.html - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Faux Flames From: "Effie's Place" Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 06:12:22 -0700 > I have been reading with interest the info on the faux flames.......but > I do a yard haunt and couldnt think of a place to use them right off. > I was thinking of a larger, long 'fire pit' with a baby roasting on a spit over it. Grossed out a friend of mine so I'm thinking it would be a really good idea! > Since I am electronically and mechanically challenged, can anyone tell > me if it might be possible to use any of these faux flames (preferable > cheapie) as a replacement for my porch lights They don't throw a whole lot of light. The one that I got, the table top model, does show a wall mounted model on the box. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Faux Flames From: "Jack of Shadows" Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:46:42 -0700 Ann asked... >I have been reading with interest the info on the faux flames.......but >I do a yard haunt and couldnt think of a place to use them right off. My wife wants me to build a mausol muas mausel (dang spelling!) crypt for the Flying Crank Ghost. I think one of the cheap Spencers flame bowls would look great on each side of the entrance. Failing this, you might make a special grave, with an "eternal flame" burning there. >Since I am electronically and mechanically challenged, can anyone tell >me if it might be possible to use any of these faux flames (preferable >cheapie) as a replacement for my porch lights? I was thinking of using >something like that for the month of Oct. This should work, if everything goes right. First, make sure the porch light is directly controlled by a mechanical switch. No X-10. No dimmer. No "On at dusk" thingie. Then replace the light bulb in the porch light with a screw-in adapter than turns it into an outlet. Finally, plug the flames into the adapter and hang them. I would use the hanging chain style, and finding the right place to hang it might be dicey. I think two - one on each side of the door - would be great. Note - These things aren't exactly quiet. Listen before you buy. Warning - These might become a target for theft of vandalism if left up for a whole month! - - - - - Subject: HotHead (aka: Lunatic's Flaming Skull) From: "Michael Hios" Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:38:57 -0400 OK folks, I finally got the Flaming Skull project ( I call it "HotHead" ) how-to online. For those who were not there, I showed this prop at the New = England Haunter's Gathering at SpookyWorld last Saturday. The URL is: We'll try to get some of the other materials from the gathering up on the site soon. Lunatic - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Flame Lights From: "WebMistress" Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 16:21:58 -0700 (PDT) $74 .. ouch! I Don't know how big yours are, but Johnson Smith company = (The Lighter Side Co.) has ones for $49 ... Hanging one is 4.5"Hx8 dia", = table top ones 11.25"x8" dia ... I think the same ones sell at Spencer's = for $29 Webby --- "halloween13" > wrote: >I know there were several posts regarding making flame lights vs. buying = them etc. > >I just wanted to let everyone know that I just received 2 flames lights = from www.cheaplights.com and I am very pleased with them. They are pretty = big and they come with the chain to hang them. They are $74/each. > >For those of us who don't have time to make them and want a quick fix. = Plus I ordered them Thursday of last week and received them yesterday. - - - - - Subject: Re: Howl - Pictures of $30 silk torch at Spencers From: "WebMistress" Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 09:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Ya .. that is the one I bought and took apart ... but mine was $19.95. Really simple ... but looks good, after they warm up. Sometimes the = flames lay flat, at least until they warm up. If you get this ... put some anti-fray on the flames. They whip around so = much that the edges get frayed and it detracts from the effect. Webby --- Jack of Shadows > wrote: >As promised in earlier e-mail, I took some photos of the cheap silk >flame unit from Spencers. > > > > >