This file is one of the Wolfstone archives of the Halloween mailing lists. You can find out more, and reach the entire collection here: http://www.pobox.com/~wolfstone/_r/HalloweenArchive.html This particular archive deals with "automation and timer" topics. This includes: o sequencers o timers o computer control It does NOT include related topics: o animation o pneumatics o people-detectors - - - - - Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:31:24 -0600 From: Eddie White Subject: Re: HALL: Hard wire control with VOX dtmf tones and audio tape are a bad idea. as the tape player changes speed, and they all do, the frequency of the tones coming off the tape change. the dectectors will not fire if the frequency(s) are out of its capture range. this used to be done to control playback decks for cable tv. the practice was abanonded because of poor results. - - - - - Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:46:50 -0600 From: Eddie White Subject: Re: HALL: cheap and dirty electrical "GATE" THIS IS BAD ADVICE!!! i think jerry is confused over the difference between an scr (triac) and a solid-state relay. one can not do this with an scr, which is the question he asked. you can do it with a solid-state relay as mentioned. understand that an scr (triac) is not a solid-state relay. a solid-state relay is MADE of scr's or triac's, but with other "stuff" inside. SSR is Solid-State Relay, SCR is Silicon Controlled Rectifier; two different toys. i know that this is mostly semantics, but if someone goes to the parts store wanting a solid-state relay and asks for a scr, they are going to get something they can't use. eddie At 08:13 AM 3/28/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 21:24:09 EST, Spookyfx , you >wrote: > >[snip] >>Very good ....even I understood that! >>Now, I still did not get a clear answer >>to the questions of using an audio feed to work >>a "gate" DIRECTLY! >> >>Can I simply connect the positive and negative >>wires that drive a speaker, to the SCR, transmitter or what ever. >>Then pipe the 120 vac or 9 vdc or 12 vdc through the "door". >>I would use the volume control of the "player" to regulate >>the audio feed to this poor mans "sound activated relay". >> >>Would this work as a SINGLE component, cheap and dirty vox? >> >Yes you can Jerry. Although adding a single diode across the control >input saves the light-emitting-diode in the solid state relay if you >turn the volume up to far. > >Please feel free to email me if you have any further questions. > > regards, > > jim f > jim.fosse at bjt.net > >p.s. it's midnight, I'll post more later this morning. e.g. $4.95 25 >amp SSRs at www.alltronics.com or 2.5 amp SSRs for $1.49 at Hosfelt >800.524.6464 You can go to fry's, but you will pay $15 - $20 for the >same thing. - - - - - From: Spookyfx Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 04:08:10 EST To: halloween-l at netcom.com, halloween-l at majordomo.netcom.com Subject: HALL: Leonard's clicker In a message dated 98-03-28 03:13:16 EST, brotherfear at juno.com writes: > > DTMF decoder chips can be purchased at Radial Shark for about $7. A few > more parts and required to make it work. You can get single tone pair > DTMF tone decoders, and decoders that will decode all 16 tone pairs. > So do you think I can get a book or a kit that would show me how to build one? I can MAKE the tones with the software I already have. Then record it on a sound chip to avoid the problem of tape stretch? Will this "decoder" directly power relays? or will it need additional "step up gates" like a transistor? Hey Haunt Master....here is another project I may order.... This could be the "modern Clicker box" that Leonard was looking for! - - - - - From: mponke at ibm.net Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:36:12 -0500 Subject: Re: HALL: Hard wire control with VOX Some sound editing programs let you generate phone tones. Cool Edit is one of them. Type that in a search engine and it'll probably find it for your downloading pleasure. brotherfear at juno.com wrote: > DTMF decoder chips can be purchased at Radial Shark for about $7. A few > more parts and required to make it work. You can get single tone pair > DTMF tone decoders, and decoders that will decode all 16 tone pairs. > > You can also get encoder chips to grow your own encoder, or modify a > touch tone phone to make an encoder. - - - - - From: mponke at ibm.net Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 09:38:13 -0500 Subject: Re: HALL: Hard wire control with VOX If I was to use DTMF tones then I'd use a digital playback chip or even burn it on a CD. Eddie White wrote: > dtmf tones and audio tape are a bad idea. as the tape player changes speed, > and they all do, the frequency of the tones coming off the tape change. the > dectectors will not fire if the frequency(s) are out of its capture range. > > this used to be done to control playback decks for cable tv. the practice > was abanonded because of poor results. - - - - - From: "Derek Schwab" To: "Halloween-L" Subject: Re: HALL: cheap and dirty electrical "GATE" Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 10:58:45 -0500 In many triac applications, especially those involving audio control, an opto coupler is used to isolated the low voltage control from the high voltage being switched. I contains an infrared LED coupled to a low current photo-triac. When the LED is on, the triac switches one, when the LED is off, the triac switched off. This low current triac is used to switch the high current triac, thus controling the load. A solid state relay (SSR) can be used to replace this entire setup. Basically, its an opto coupler with a high-current triac, so no additional component are needed. AND, since most SSRs have a control voltage of 3-30 volts, a simple "color organ" effect can be created by connecting the SSR directly to an audio amp with no additional components. - - - - - Subject: HALL: Re: Lurking Date: Mon, 30 Mar 98 22:37:59 -0700 From: John Massaglia To: Leonard wrote: >Denny wrote: > >>and... the rest of the world thinks we're sociopathic geeks. > >Hey, I resemble that remark! That really hit my funny bone. One of my co-workers always seems to walk into my cube when I am checking out the "meathead" web page or some other link that all of you post to the list. He thinks that I am one demented guy. One of the reasons that I tend to lurk is because I get so behind on reading the list, the conversation was over a week before I read it (I was at Novell's Brainshare conference last week). I also wanted to mention that I like the idea of using a rotating disk and some light detectors to control the lights. Have any of you seen a book called "The Robot Builder's Bonanza: 99 Inexpensive Robotics Projects"? The idea of using a rotating disk with light sensors to control things is in there. I just hadn't thought of using it to control lights. Now I'm wondering how many of the other ideas could be used for Halloween-related projects? I'll let you know if I think of something. By the way, if you are interested in the book, here's some more info: author: Gordon McComb Publisher: Tab Books ISBN: 0-8306-0800-1 ISBN: 0-8306-2800-2 (paperback, I think) - - - - - Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 20:48:41 -0500 (CDT) From: John Dolan Subject: HALL: help with pneumatic On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Paul Boyd wrote: > This is going to be the first year using motion monsters at my haunt. My > question is this, once I have the hardware to lets say raise a corpse out > of a trashcan, what makes it jump up and down for lets say 3 times then > slowly sink back into the metal garbage can each time the air-ram set > off??? > > Paul Boyd Hi Paul, Because I have virtually zero knowledge in electronics, here is my "expensive" solution... First I think you can to this with 2 timers (either Jim K's "Ect" or talk to John J. about the McMaster timers). Once your pop-up is "triggered" by a switch- mat,pir,ir beam, or what have-you, the first-timer is set off with an "on" cycle of say 4 sec.s and an "off" of 30. This in turn triggers the second timer with an "on" and "off" cycle of one second each. The last timer is wired to your solenoid. If the timing works out I *think* you'll end up with the movements your looking for (and electric master's please correct me if I'm wrong). But again, if this is even remotely correct, I'm afraid it will be relatively expensive... Or if you want to trigger this manually you could eliminate the first timer and triggering device and simply use a toggle switch. This is what we did last year.... - - - - - Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:15:57 -0400 From: Jim Kadel Subject: HALL: Re: help with pneumatic - sequential timing John, This summer Haunt Master Products will release a new haunt control timer dubbed the STC (Sequential Timing Controller). It allows the user to set off up to four consecutive "events" from a single trigger (switch closure). =============== REF ============================ At 08:48 PM 4/9/98 -0500, John Dolan wrote: >Because I have virtually zero knowledge in electronics, here is my >"expensive" solution... First I think you can to this with 2 >timers (either Jim K's "Ect" or .. - - - - - Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 00:50:15 -0700 From: FPS24 Subject: Re: HALL: Gilderfluke animation control David W Mcloda wrote: > I am a new Gilderfluke (www.gilderfluke.com) employee. > We build animation control systems for the theme park industry > and I was just curious if any professional haunters use our > products in their attractions. We use Gilderfluke at work all the time...but then again its not my money.Ê I dont think that many of the people here on the list can shell out that kind of cash for a system, but I would love to have one.Ê :) - - - - - Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 01:57:31 -0500 From: Eddie White Subject: HALL: single tone audio ctl years ago before microprocessors, automated radio stations used to use low freq. tones on their tapes to signal other decks to start.Ê this was back when rock was still am and fm was elevator music.Ê they put a 25hz tone on the tape about 5 secs before the next machine went on the air.Ê this tone was filtered somewhere in the audio processing chain, but if it wasn't you had to be listening to hear it.Ê two reasons for 25hz: tape wow and flutter did not effect 25hz as bad as higher frequencies, so sloppy decks could still reproduce a detectable tone.Ê and the passband of the transmitters was not that good; the tone was hard to hear. i pulled my isd data book on their chipcorder products.Ê they give a passband of 2.6 to 2.8 khz, which varies with the sampling clock, but don't give where in the spectrum their passband exists.Ê i don't see what the low end response is, but i suspect 300hz since this stuff is designed for telephone use.Ê but if these things could reproduce down to 25hz, even with a high amount of distortion, a single tone detector could be used trigger an event.Ê 25hz should be easy to mix into the sound track.Ê a 567 would work for the decoder.Ê of course, this would work with tape based sound tracks too. - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 04:06:42 -0800 Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN At 08:54 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >Oh, no I can not use Dual tone, if you mean two tones played at the same >time or even one after the other. >That would not work for me. Jerry, ÊYou said in one of your posts that you used Cool Edit. It'll generate DTMF tones. - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 05:26:03 -0800 Subject: Re: HALL: single tone audio ctl At 03:47 AM 4/22/98 EDT, Jerry wrote: >Just last year I made another discovery, that I could use the same vox >to create a performance LOOP. This was REALLY cool. >The vox would hear the end of the loop as a second or so of silence. >This would shut off the power to the tape player. Now the power is >applied to start the loop over again.Ê A relay with multiple contacts >and some creative hard wiring did all the work! Hey, ÊIf you do this with a 20, 30, 60, 120+ second sound chip tripping a color organ or Vox you can record silence at the end (or anywhere) of the voice or sound segment to work as your delay-on/reset timer. 10 or 20 seconds of silence is probably plenty of delay for resetting the event for the next group. There's no tape player, no tapes wearing out, no multiple recordings on one tape, easy to trip, no additional relays (other than the solenoid valve), no additional timers and the voice chip resets itself exactly to "start" automatically at the end of play. The next issue of Fright Times has some details on the method I use. It works extremely well for simple devices like a pop-up. >Now this Vox Organ thing has me excited. Because I could activate >several Vox mechanisms on ONE track. This would allow me a LOGICAL >EASY way to orchestrate props with multiple synchronized actions. Bingo, remember when I wrote- >Editing seems simple with a program like Cool Edit, the voice is recorded on >one track and the tones inserted on the other track as you go along a graphic >display of the wave form.... ÊMany people I've talked to have been doing exactly this, it's not new technology by any means, most have been using DTMF and modified off-the-shelf devices, not single tones. But I don't know why either wouldn't work for simple, yet advanced beyond pop-up, animations. ÊMost have also mentioned that burning a CD is better than a tape for preserving the tone quality. At 1 1/2 bucks a pop for some CDR's it may be cheaper than a tape once you have the CD writer. - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 15:03:35 GMT On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:58:35 -0800, milwiron at btprod.com, you wrote: >I wrote: > >>Hey Jerry, >> What you're starting to describe is a DTMF tone decoder. > >Sorry, I should add- >Hopefully one of the lists's arcs and sparks gurus can describe DTMF, it's >advantages and disadvantages... I certainly can't. >I was also wondering, once upon a time Radio Shack carried a DTMF chip in >their catalog, I can't find it in the newer catalog releases, is it or an >equivalent still available? Asking about it at a store is a monumental >waste of time. Denny, California Micro Devices Inc. http://www.calmicro.com/news/promotion.htm has several parts with cross references to other manifactures. - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 08:32:18 -0800 Subject: Re: HALL: dtmf At 10:04 AM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-22 04:05:34 EDT, you write: >>Ê two tones at the same time.Ê dtmf is what your phone dialer uses.Ê if you >>Ê have an old at&t touch-tone phone still working, press two keys at the same >>Ê time, like 1 and 4 or 1 and 2.Ê you can then hear the individual tones. >one >>Ê key at a time and you are hearing two tones.Ê somewhere i have a map of the >>Ê tones, if youÊ need it. >>Ê eddie >So can you play 8 tones at ONE TIME, and trip 4 relays off of ONE track? >Will the DTMF "hear"Ê and react to the 4 2-tone combos all on >one track AT THE SAME TIME? What Eddie is saying (I don't mean to put words in his mouth) is each DTMF "tone" is actually comprised of tones generated from two different frequencies. I believe this is done to avoid false triggering from harmonics with a single tone system, though I could very very wrong about that. Just like you can't push 7 buttons at the same time to dial a local number on your phone, all the DTMF decoders I've read about work on one tone/signal at a time. Yes you can trigger 4 relays from one track but the DTMF signals each must be of a certain minimum length of time for the chip to pick up and separated by something like 10(?) milliseconds of dwell time. - - - - - Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:23:22 -0700 Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN & DTMF From: brotherfear at juno.com (David C Schwend) On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 19:58:55 -0800 milwiron at btprod.com writes: >At 09:24 PM 4/22/98 EDT, you wrote: > >>But I mean I need the tones to control 4 relays on ONE track >>at the SAME time.Ê Would the Dual tones step on each other >>in the tone decoder device? >>Or can ALL the tones play at the same time to control >>ALL four relays at the same time. >>That is what I am not sure of with the DTMF device. > >Hey Jerry, > I see what you're looking for now.Ê As far as I know it's strictly >one at a time, like dialing a phone.Ê You can get the tones pretty close together though, if each tone is >100 milliseconds long and the spacing between them 40 or 50 milliseconds, you can squeeze a whole bunch of >individual commands in a couple of seconds. The "Dual Tone Multiple Frequency" (DTMF) system is a matrix of 4 tones by 4 tones. You only get 3 by 4 from a telephone dial but the standard also includes four additional buttons that are seldom used.Ê When you push a button you get two tones, a row tone and a column tone. Consequently, if you pushed buttons 1,4,7, and * you would get five tones ... column 1 and all four row tones... your decoder(s) would only see four DTMF Combinations.Ê If you pushed 1, 5, 9, and * you would get 7 tones ...Ê all three columns and all four rows ... your decoder(s) would decode all 12 DTMF combinations. The tones were chosen so as not to interact with each other (combining to produce other unwanted tones).Ê You might be able to do 4 relay control if you stick to a single column tone.Ê You might need 4 tone generators and an audio mixer to create the control track.Ê Might be fun to play with. - - - - - Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:22:39 -0500 From: Gary Hughes Subject: HALL: RE: VOX ORGAN >> DTMF DTMF! My specialty! My haunt uses DTMF for sound and light sync. Let me first tell you about my controller. I use a compact disk player and a custom CD. The left channel of the CD contains my scene audio and the right channel contains the DTMF sounds. The DTMF sounds are generated by a program called 'SoundMaker' (Macintosh) and pasted into right audio track at a very fine resolution of 1/72 of a second. Very precise control. Currently my DTMF control board controls only two relays but additional control boards can be stacked so it is possible to control 16 relays. The control board has a set of dip switches that allows you to change the response DTMF... 1&2 or 3&4 or 5&6 etc. Also all boards recognize the * for all ON or # for all OFF. In use, the customer trips an IR sensor that starts the compact disk player. Each scene last 1 minute (up to 74 minutes) with perfect sync to the audio. There is only two tracks per disk the first is the scene audio. The second is the # DTMF for all OFF just incase a relay was left energized. At then end the compact disk player has finished playing all the disk and stops, it's now ready for the next group. During my experiments I found recorded DTMF sounds, even direct recordings from phone sources, do not work as well as *generated* DTMF sounds. Sometimes they don't work at all even though they sound fine to your ears. Looking at a DTMF sounds on your monitor are very pretty and symmetrical, recorded sounds are not. If anyone wants to play with pure DTMF I will save them in a file, let me know what numbers you want. Gary >I figure that the best way to create DTMF tones,simply, would be to use your >modem and a terminal emmulator. There is however a minor problem, the standard >modem will only make 12 tones. This is because the way your phone is arranged, >there are only 12 keys, when in fact there are 16. This is what allows you to >control 16 realys. The only way around this is to resort to the underworld and >build a pearl box. This was designed by phreaks to hack telco, but they do way >16 keys and are capable of using the DTMF decoder to the fullest extent. - - - - - Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 09:44:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Bell Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Daniel R. Oelke wrote: > > But I mean I need the tones to control 4 relays on ONE track > > at the SAME time.Ê Would the Dual tones step on each other > > in the tone decoder device? > > Or can ALL the tones play at the same time to control > > ALL four relays at the same time. > > But, in a word - No. > > There are 7 different tones that make up telephone "dual tones" > The combination of two of these tones gives you 12 possibilites. > > So, if you push say 1 & 2 together - you get the tone > for the top row, and the first 2 columns.Ê Not something easy > to detect, and not something that the DTMF chips out there > (that I know of) are set up to handle. Exactly, Dan!Ê A little expansion, if I may: Actually, if you press 2 keys on a telephone, say 1 & 2 as Dan suggested, you do NOT get the codes for '1' and for '2', which would be a total of three tones: The common Row tone, and the two Column tones; instead, you only get the common Row tone. Try it! If you press say the 1 & 5 keys, you get NOTHING, as there is neither a common Row nor Column. This should suggest the problem with encoding multiple keys at one time.Ê What would you record to 'press' the '1' and '5' keys together? You'd need the tones for Row1, Column1, Row2, and Column2, all at the same time. OK, that gets you keys '1' and '5'. BUT it ALSO gets you keys '2' and '4' (Row1/Column2 and Row2/Column1)!! How would you build a DEcoder that could read your mind? The whole reason for DTMF encoding was reliability in a voice channel. Any one tone might appear in a speakers voice for long enough to trigger the decoder. The Phone Company (remember TPC?) uses the combination of two unrelated tones to make the code. These tones are all odd frequencies, not 200, 300, 400 Hz, but something like 535, 621, 717, etc. in the rows, and like 1143, 1265, etc. for the columns. (NOT the actual frequencies, which I forget, but they 'look' like that...) For show control, you have a 'clean' sound track with nothing but control tones recorded on it. Screams, moans, etc. can go on the other channel. You could record any ONE tone and decode that with a 567 tone decoder and trigger an event. Since each event only needs one tone, and they are all independant, you could record MANY tones at once, and in theory, each one would trigger it's respective tone decoder. There is one possibility remaining, that might allow use of DTMF tones and decoder chips. IF you can find a decoder chip that has 8 outputs, for the Row and Column (there are really 4 columns in the system; operators' phones have the extra one) detected lines, then that once chip should be able to trigger 8 events. UNLESS the outputs do not go 'true' unless there is a proper pair of tones applied. That will all depend upon the specific chip design. I haven't been searching for info on these, but will look around. Dave (OK, I got carried away - that was a LOT of expansion!) - - - - - Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:08:16 -0500 From: Eddie White Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN well first, you're not being a pain.Ê since others have joined in, the discussion must be useful. a color organ uses very broad filters to trigger lights of different colors. for example: blue might be 75 to 400 hz.,Ê yellow might be 400 to 4000 hz and red might be 4000 to 12000 hz.Ê of course a 600 hz and 3500 hz tone would be detected by the same lamp driver.Ê 600 and 6000 would be different lamps, but are the filters tight enough to really tell the difference?Ê i doubt it.Ê i'd bet the yellow light would glow a little with 6000 hz tone. you could set a threshold where the "latch" would not turn on until a certain level was reached, but that would not be very reliable.Ê if the output level of the audio source changed even a little, you could get false triggering. the single channel organ i have on my bench that i'm working on to give the list suffers this problem.Ê i'm filtering stuff below 1000 hz so that vocals have a more pronounced effect, but lots of bass will still flash the light if it's loud enough. now you going to ask why not detect certain frequencies, 1000, 1200, 2400, etc.?Ê you can, but it takes a different filter than what's used in a color organ.Ê a color organ uses bandpass filters - lets a group of frequencies through.Ê a tone detector uses a notch filter - tries to filter only one frequency.Ê but this is not easy, it takes precise component values (and a bunch of math.)Ê it get worse when you have a source with many frequencies. the point: a color organ looks a groups (or a band) of frequencies and what you are looking for is a individual frequency.Ê not the same thing. i've seen some analog dudes who could whip this out in their head and leave me scurrying around to find the parts.Ê sorry, i'm not that good.Ê could it be made to work, yes i think so; but i don't really think you would like the results.Ê false triggering would be sure to occur if you didn't spend a bunch of time tuning the thing evertime you turned it on. eddie (hint, hint: add some digital, then it's either on or off.Ê hopefully at the right time, but thats another thread...) At 03:05 AM 4/23/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-23 02:55:35 EDT, you write: > >> ut really, you've gone beyond what can be done with tone control.Ê one >>Ê could design some single tone filters (detectors) that could pick their >tone >>Ê out of a group of 8 at the same time.Ê just dug out my old text; to build a >>Ê dual-feedback bandpass filter takes 10 steps and 4 pages of math.Ê nope, >>Ê ain't going back there again! >>Ê > >Sorry to be a pain in the butt about this....I just want to understand. >If a Color organ can DIM lights with 4 chanels all at the same >time all on one track.Ê Why cant the Color organ LATCH the "switch" >instead of "dimming" the switch? > >This is the basic Idea I thought would make the VOX organ. - - - - - From: jim.fosse at bjt.net (Jim Fosse) Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:44:06 GMT On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 16:08:16 -0500, Eddie White , you wrote: >the single channel organ i have on my bench that i'm working on to give the >list suffers this problem.Ê i'm filtering stuff below 1000 hz so that vocals >have a more pronounced effect, but lots of bass will still flash the light >if it's loud enough. Eddie, check into some of the Linear Technology's switched capacitor filters if you want a much tighter band pass. Linear has a "CAD" program for these 28pin chips. (there are also several other companies that make these types of chips, I just don't have them "off the top of my head" right now) >i've seen some analog dudes who could whip this out in their head and leave >me scurrying around to find the parts.Ê sorry, i'm not that good.Ê could it >be made to work, yes i think so; but i don't really think you would like the >results.Ê false triggering would be sure to occur if you didn't spend a >bunch of time tuning the thing evertime you turned it on. > I'm not that good either. But I'd give it a try with some of the new chips. I'm also looking into using one of MicroChip's PIC microcontrollers to do simple tone decoding. I'll have more info next month, I'm trying to get 8 switching power supply designs out this month - I'd a tad short of time right now;) - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 05:17:01 -0800 Subject: HALL: Re:VOX ORGAN Jerry Wrote: >>But I mean I need the tones to control 4 relays on ONE track >>at the SAME time.Ê Would the Dual tones step on each other >>in the tone decoder device? >>Or can ALL the tones play at the same time to control >>ALL four relays at the same time. >>That is what I am not sure of with the DFMT device. I Wrote: >Hey Jerry, > I see what you're looking for now.Ê As far as I know it's strictly one at >a time, like dialing a phone. > You can get the tones pretty close together though, if each tone is 100 >milliseconds long and the spacing between them 40 or 50 milliseconds, you >can squeeze a whole bunch of individual commands in a couple of seconds. It >may not be instantaneous but it's not too bad for moving simple >animatronics, especially if you're using air cylinders... which ain't >exactly lightning fast. > Lets say you want to move a head to look left as the figure points left. >If the head lags behind the arm by 100 or 200 milliseconds, it would >probably look fine... Happy Monday All, :( ÊI had a little time to assemble a couple of boards using 567 tone decoder chips this past weekend.Ê From 300 Hz to 30,000 Hz the 567 chips in my configuration were very happy picking up a tone as short as 20-30 milliseconds. ÊMixing an inaudible tone of 20+ kHz into a voice or sounds effect track also works well if the amplitude is set up a bit. Which all means there can be some simultaneous events going on between two stereo tracks and event timing can be very close, if 30 or so milliseconds is good enough. ÊCoincidentally, one of the electronics gurus I work with in the toy industry has used tone decoding extensively in the past. He recommends staying away from tape and using ISD chips or CD's for the recordings. - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 06:42:56 -0800 Subject: HALL: Re:VOX ORGAN again I Wrote: > I had a little time to assemble a couple of boards using 567 tone decoder >chips this past weekend.Ê From 300 Hz to 30,000 Hz the 567 chips in... Oops, forgot to mention that the tone decoders are easily able to decode at least two tones simultaneously off of one track (I only stuck 2 boards together). I tried one 567 chip set to 1 kHz and one to 5 kHz, running the tones both individually and mixed produced excellent results. - - - - - From: "Gordon Free" Subject: RE: HALL: Computer Control Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:43:33 -0800 > Here an outline of a Computer Control systen that > Ive been working on from the ground up: > On the PC you have a paralell (printer) port... Mat: I used a similar setup this year, but I used only the 8 data lines to directly control an AC relay so I was limited to only 8 devices. On the other hand, interfacing was very simple and control was very fast (I was even able to simulate lightening by flashing a light and playing a wave file). I also used the 5 status lines to provide triggering from floor pressure sensors. I do like the idea of supporting device addressing. I have a few suggestions in this area. Rather than using a flip-flop to toggle off and on, I'd dedicate one of the lines to indicate off or on. That way there's no way that the computer will think that it is off while the device thinks it should be on. If you use one of the 8 lines this still leaves you with 128 addressable devices. I'd also consider using an address decoder or comparator instead of NAND gates, seems simpler (although maybe not cheaper). Finally, you may want to dedicate a line to providing 5 volts of power so that each device doesn't need its own power source. Obviously, don't try to use a parallel port output for this! If you don't like dropping down to 64 devices, you can always use 15 pin connectors instead of 9. How many devices have you tried to hook up? I suspect that at some point (prior to 256) the parallel port won't be able to drive all of them so there will be a practical limit of the number of devices without additional interface circuitry. Keep us posted on how it works out. As for me, I plan on working on a better scripting engine and possibly adding X-10 support. - - - - - From: Ekker at aol.com Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:14:18 EST Subject: Re: RE: HALL: Computer Control When I started looking into computer control I found the plans for a circuit that use four data lines addressing, four data lines for output, plus a status line is used to provide one input. ( The link is on my website: http://members.aol.com/ekker/ekker.htm ). According to the website a standard parralell port has enough power to support ten of these boards. I have not had time to try this circuit, and I think that I will just order the kits from Weeder that were posted last week ( http://weedertech.com/indec.html) Ekker In a message dated 1/20/99, 4:55:59 PM, halloween-l at netcom.com writes: << I do like the idea of supporting device addressing. I have a few suggestions in this area. Rather than using a flip-flop to toggle off and on, I'd dedicate one of the lines to indicate off or on. That way there's no way that the computer will think that it is off while the device thinks it should be on. If you use one of the 8 lines this still leaves you with 128 addressable devices. I'd also consider using an address decoder or comparator instead of NAND gates, seems simpler (although maybe not cheaper). Finally, you may want to dedicate a line to providing 5 volts of power so that each device doesn't need its own power source. Obviously, don't try to use a parallel port output for this! If you don't like dropping down to 64 devices, you can always use 15 pin connectors instead of 9. How many devices have you tried to hook up? I suspect that at some point (prior to 256) the parallel port won't be able to drive all of them so there will be a practical limit of the number of devices without additional interface circuitry. - - - - - From: "Gordon Free" Subject: RE: HALL: computer controlled haunt Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 14:10:26 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01BE67DB.160A38E0 I get most of my parts from Mouser (phone:800-346-6873, http://www.mouser.com ). This past year I used a circuit that hooked up to the parallel port of a PC. I'd recommend getting "Controlling the World With Your PC" by Paul Bergsman. It has a number of useful circuits along with source listings for some simple programs. To give you an idea of what is involved, here's an approximate parts list for my project which had four sensors and could control four 110V outlets: (4) Triacs (4) 5VDC Relays (2) duplex outlets in junction box w/ power cord (1) 330 ohm resistor network (1) 4.7K resistor network (1) LN2803 line driver IC (?) (8) LEDs (1) centronics connector (1) terminal strip (1) 5VDC 1A power supply (1) breadboard Total cost? Around $15. The circuits are real simple, so even if you don't have a lot of experience... don't be afraid (save that for your customers/victims). =================== Gordon Free mailto:gordonf at whidbey.com - - - - - From: "Gordon Free" Subject: RE: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:05:55 -0700 The book that got me started is: Controlling the World With Your PC by Paul Bergsman http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1878707159/qid%3D926718904/002-057080 4-6670260 This book shows how to interface a wide range of things to a PC parallel port, included what driver chips to use to control relays (hint: ULN2803A). It also includes BASIC source code for all the projects.Ê I can't comment on the quality of the source code, since I didn't use any of it.Ê [I prefer C/C++, and besides, communicating with devices over a parallel port is what I do for a living]. It is pretty easy to control things using the parallel port... so experiment -- 5V won't hurt ya.Ê The only caution I have is to do your experimenting with a cheap add-in parallel card.Ê You don't want to blow out the one on your motherboard!Ê Not that I've ever seen one get destroyed, but you never know. - - - - - From: "Fields, Karl" Subject: RE: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 18:24:31 -0400 Gotta agree. This book is well worth the $35 or so that surplus places are charging. Most of our HH electronics started off as one of his designs. His basic source is OK, although he doesn't supply any for speed dependant projects like servo control, but it's not too difficult to plagiarize his C code into basic. And do heed the parallel card warning, I lost two - mostly do to the loose nut on the keyboard, but... Karl > -----Original Message----- > From: Gordon Free [SMTP:gordonf at whidbey.com] > The book that got me started is: > Controlling the World With Your PC by Paul Bergsman > > It is pretty easy to control things using the parallel port... so > experiment -- 5V won't hurt ya.Ê The only caution I have is to do your > experimenting with a cheap add-in parallel card.Ê You don't want to blow > out > the one on your motherboard!Ê Not that I've ever seen one get destroyed, > but > you never know. - - - - - Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 15:46:33 -0700 From: Aaron Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software Dan Oelke wrote: Ê > So - for relays you would want to use something to buffer it. > A transistor properly wired would do it, or you might be able to > find a driver chip of some kind that could do it.Ê Hmmmm - > I don't do transistors (never figured them out enough) but > maybe a motor driver chip would provide a simple way to handle > the current draw??? I have a schematic showing the use of a 74367 HEX BUFFER chip to isolate the port. The schem. description regarding this chip reads as follows: The circuit makes use of the 74367 Hex Driver Buffer chip. This protects the motherboard from sinking or sourcing too much current. The parallel port can sink or source about 5 mA of current. Thus one cannot directly hook up a motor, for example, across D0 and GND. A motor can easily demand an amp of current! If one would attach a motor directly across D0 and GND, you could possibly blow and damage your motherboard! With the 74367 as a protective buffer, if your application draws or sinks too much current, these chips would blow before surging your motherboard. You can think of these chips like electrical "fuses". These buffer chips are commonly used to interface real world devices to a PC. An additional note: There are many types of 74367 chips. There is the plain 74367. Also there are the 74LS367, 74HCT367 and other TTL variants. The difference between them is voltage that defines a HI and LO signal. I recommend using the 74HCT367. For output, a HI is defined by a minimum voltage of 4.9 V. A LO is defined by a maximum of 0.1 V. For input, a HI is defined by a minimum of 2.0 V and a LO is defined by a maximum of 0.8 V. The HCT series also allows immediate interfacing to CMOS and TTL type chips. - - - - - Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 17:29:46 -0700 From: Aaron Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software Jerry Chavez wrote: > > um.....dumb question here.... > > why not just use a fuse? Not a dumb question, made me stop and think (though Electrician I are not). The buffer supplies you with more than the 5 mA that the port can deal with, much like a transistor can, I think. (c'mon, somebody help me out here ;) ) I wish I had a link to give you but I can't seem to find it right now.... Doh! here it is http://www.boondog.com/\tutorials\parallel\parallel.html Just one of many pages dealing with this that I have found (includes QBasic code too). - - - - - From: htraver at dreamsys.com Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 23:01:26 -0700 Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controlle (Aaron on driver chips..) I would use the ULN2003 to drive relays instead of the 367.... - - - - - Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 23:52:09 -0400 From: Allen Subject: RE: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software >Gotta agree. This book is well worth the $35 or so that surplus places are >charging. There are several web pages on parallel port robotics. You should see if they have what you need to know before blowing $35. Start with these: http://www.lvr.com/parport.htm http://www.lvr.com/jansfaq.htm - - - - - From: C40179 at aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 05:40:00 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software A: Oh well . .since we're suggesting links i'll add . . . http://www.paranoia.com/~filipg/HTML/LINK/PORTS/ http://shell.rmi.net/~hisys/parport.html http://www.access.digex.net/~pha http://rainbow.rmi.net/~hisys/parport.html I found'em on my links-page towards the top 50 but I havn't tried'em for a looong time so i hope they're still there :) lol (havn't had time to update the links-page for 6 months :( sniff sniff but if ya want to check around fer yourself it's at . . . http://members.aol.com/c40179 (there's quite a few electronics links on there too towards the top) B: I'm assuming that since you were asking whether there was software for the Mac that you want to connect the relays to a mac BUT . .if i'm wrong and you can use an IBM you might want to check Marlin P. Jones Inc (they have a relay kit that has 8 relays? on a pc-board along with the software for windows And dos (if I remember correctly) It's at . . . www.mpja.com (under "Relays" and "kits") (it costs about $50 though) (my advice is to grab a cheapy IBM for $25 at a thrift store or flea-market or something (I find'em all the time) ( along with old macs too :) so you can experiment all you want without endangering a Useful comuter to you. and YES if you have an Ibm you can use QBasic to control the ports and if you want to compile your program (so you don't have to actually RUN QBasic to run your program the Cheapest compiler i've found has been "PowerBasic"Ê .. it's alot like Qbasic but then you can hit "compile" and it turns whatever you programmed into an "EXE" file that you can run on whatever pc you have right off the bat. C: Yeah the Bergsman book IS written really well ! It actually Gives you the info you need to get your pc to connect to whatever gadgets you want in nice simple language (including simple diagrams and software) without OverWriting the whole thing and making it more confusing etc. etc. (I think it's the best book I have (And have even seen) for this sort of stuff !! D: If you want to keep it simple and try to see what you can get away with connecting Directly to the parallel port (or serial port or whatever) you CAN connect SOLID STATE RELAYSÊ (from what i've heard) (a regular relay usually has a magnetic coil that you send some voltage into which then triggers an internal switch (which means it's gonna take enough electrons flowing through it to make enough magnetic force to Pull a switch down etc.) while a Solid State Relay actually just sits there and does nothing until the "Load" tries to run through it THEN it just Checks to see if there's a small signal trying to trigger it etc.Ê . . . as in the Trigger signal doesn't actually power it the "Load" does ! (when you think of it the relay doesn't Have to Do anything at all if the load isn't even Trying to run Through it . . so why put all the stress on the trigger signal?) nifty huh ?Ê :) I've seen all sorts of different prices on Solid State Relays (radio shack has'em for $6 I think . .but i've seen small ones for about $1 in theeeee . . . . All Electronics Catalog ??Ê .. .maybe Herbach & Rademan . . . maaaybe at www.mpja.comÊ . . . sumthin like that. and E: This is all Moot Anyway if you just want to run LEDS ! :) lol Yeah leds are real gentle on your computer ports (I'll bet the other guy is right about adding the resistor etc.) but that's basically what you'd be doing with the solid-state-relays anyway so maybe I should be telling you to add resistors with Those Too ! don't go burnin out any $1000 computers :( have fun though !Ê :) - - - - - From: Biotronic1 at aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:44:24 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software No, you need a power source, low 5v 500ma or less, and basically, the parallel port switches hi/low , and by using a simple transistor , you can pick up that signal and switch higer-powered items by using a larger relay, and larger power supply . All you want the five-volt power supply to do is switch a low volt relay, which in turn (if the amp rating is correct on the contacts of the 5-volt relay), you can switch a higher-powered item with it. - - - - - From: Biotronic1 at aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:46:43 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software You can use a small 5-volt relay with a diode inline to protect the parallel port. By sending a low milliamp power supply through the circuit you design to the parallel port, you can switch a 5v relay on and off, without damaging the parallel port. The parallel port is capable of switching 5 volts at 500 ma or less. - - - - - From: Biotronic1 at aol.com Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:48:39 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software if you want to use qbasic, use outport, and inport commands. Outport (whatever parallel port address is (in hex), decimal value ) where the decimal value corresponds to the pins of the parallel port by 2^2, 2^3, 2^4 and so on. - - - - - Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 15:11:18 -0700 From: Terry Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software also look at http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~paul/page3.html this guy has a couple of differant printer port devices. andas far as powering directly from the port its still better to buffer the port some how, rather then destroy it on accident. - - - - - From: htraver at dreamsys.com Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:44:28 -0700 Subject: HALL: Computer Controlled Scenes? (Jason about computer control) Jason, that sort of programming is available for what you seek for computer control. A company called Alcorn McBride has controllers and also software, I got their software a long time back, it might have been demo software, not sure. I am writing my own type of software to perform such functions. It only works for Apple ][, though. You can use relay cards to drive outputs for tapes or lights or solonoids or valves or whatever you need.... - - - - - From: "Jason Christman" Subject: Re: HALL: Computer Controlled Scenes? Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 02:08:27 -0400 Tony, ÊI checked out Alcorn McBride's website: http://alcorn.com There stuff looked nice, but expensive. I did find http://www.craigsrobotics.com/, which seems to cater to the hobbyist rather than the pro crowd like with the alcorn mcbride stuff. Is this guy on the list? he's got a ton of halloween props. Anyway the page says they have software for parallel port software, and controllers for it. The page doesn't give much info about it although it sounds like it might be around what I'm looking for. Anybody gotten anything from this guy? Or is he even on this list somewhere? - - - - - From: C40179 at aol.com Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 05:00:36 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: Computer Controlled Scenes? Marlin P. Jones Accociates has had a relay kit for the parallel-port for a long time now. It's $59 and comes with software etc. (I don't know how hard it is to put together though) it's listed at . . . http://www.mpja.com/product/kits/relays.htm (It's the one with the 8 relays) - - - - - Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:00:47 -0500 From: "Edwin Wise" Subject: Re: HALL: Computer Controlled Scenes? On 7/17/99, at 1:42 PM, Jason Christman wrote: This is a semi-commercial post -- I am working on an animatronic controller system which I will be selling for the millenial halloween season, and I'm looking for feedback, needs, desires, and dreams. >There are a couple of scenes I'm planning this year that require complex >controllers to run them. I'd like to be able to keep these scenes as close >to my ideas as possible, but I'm not sure if they're possible to create >without spending a fortune. Basically, after the scene is triggered, I need >to be able to first turn on a light, begin a recording, turn on another >light, and play yet another sound. How can this be accomplished? I'm >assuming that some kind of computer control would be needed, but I don't >quite know what. Any help you could give me would be much appreciated. This is a theme that drifts by the list on a regular basis -- how to control props and effects without having to babysit them and push buttons all night. While there are a variety of solutions -- from X10 to relays on your computer's parallel port to trigger mats and timers -- there seems to be a gap in the haunter's control options. Last year I designed a control system for a giant, air-powered robot (which I'm still working on -- and learning from), and in September my book "Applied Robotics" on building small robots should be reaching the market.Ê While this book has some information that would be useful for the ambitous home haunter who wants to make their own control systems, that isn't its purpose in life. Finally, but still too late to make much impact this season, I am slowly moving on to my next project -- building a modular control system suitable for animating props and running halloween displays; priced to be accessible to amateurs, but powerful enough for the professionals. While I realize that each and every one on this list has a different "dream" system, I am interested in which features would make for a good halloween controller that would be useful to as many haunters as possible. My current design has seperate modules for each "feature" -- not in plastic boxes but as separate boards, to keep costs down.Ê One module can manage analog inputs (light sensors, for example, or potentiometers to measure the joint angle on a figure).Ê Another can switch 110volt AC on and off -- up to 1,000 watts or more, depending on what people need.Ê Another can switch DC.Ê At the center of it all is a brain module programmed with a high-level language not unlike Basic or C but designed specifically for hardware control and based on Fuzzy Logic.Ê I am currently tracking down hand peripherals to use with the system; sensors are vital to creating a responsive haunt.Ê There should also be ample example code, to make it easier on the non-programmers (and hopefully, in the future, a non-programming way to make things work together, like the visual language used in the Lego Mindstorms kits).Ê Finally, all of the pieces hook together using standard phone cords (RJ11 for those who care, using an RS485 transport layer). My thinking with this system is -- you would buy one brain unit (for around $100, but I haven't finished the cost analysis here yet), and add input and output modules as needed.Ê Each input or output module will handle at least 8 instances of their designated form.Ê I'm trying to keep each unit as cost effective as possible ($50 or less, but I'm still looking). The independant brain frees the animatronics from having to be tied to the family computer (though... computer oversight and monitoring is still entirely possible).Ê This brain can also provide better control than the home computer -- pulse-width modulation for smooth pneumatic motion, or it can synthesize R/C servo signals with relative ease. My ultimate goal is to make high-quality animatronic technology available to a wider audience... pneumatics, control electronics, and software. Anyway, I apologize for the really long post -- but I am looking for feedback, and some beta-test volunteers wouldn't hurt either.Ê I can have sample hardware by September for a few testers... but production runs probably won't occur until this season is over. Thank you for your time.... Edwin! -- Edwin Wise Mad Scientist Current mad project at:Ê http://www.simreal.com/Boris - - - - - From: "Ken MYOdB" Subject: Re: HALL: Question from new member Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:21:54 PDT here is an idea using the parallel port on the puter you can control upto 20 events (using timers and sensors) the schmatic is available at www.downloads.com (the file name is cablegui.zip) then you need and an interface to control the PP also avail there (run a search for parallel port). i got it there awhile ago, jst dont remember which one it is. (i went and bought a commercial one for $39.99 at compu-usa) good luck! >From: Daniel Duthie >Reply-To: halloween-l at netcom.com >To: halloween-l at netcom.com >Subject: Re: HALL: Question from new member >Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 14:24:12 -0400 > >I happened to see IBM Home Director Starter Kit at www.surplusauction.com >for $12.00. - - - - - Subject: Re: [RE: Hall: Automatic fogger] From: "Davros76" Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 22:34:10 -0500 -----Original Message----- From: Crow979797 at aol.com To: Halloween-L at WildRice.com Date: Saturday, November 06, 1999 3:35 AM Subject: Re: [RE: Hall: Automatic fogger] >uhm that all sounded very impressive. now can you explain all that in simple >terms for those of us who might be electronically impaired but would = still >like to have some of these high tech timer type projects handy I didn't mean to discourage anyone with jargon. The post was directed more towards those who already have a knowledge of electronics and have done designs with a 555 at least. Also, it isn't a high tech method. It's quite similar to how the 555 operates but gives you advantages in many circuits. If electronics isn't for you, then skip to the end of this posting where I describe a simple mechanical method which I've seen in kinetic art sculptures and animated scale models. Okay, here's a breakdown of what a "4093 Schmitt Quad NAND" chip is. The name might seem complex, but that's what it gets called in digital design courses. 4093 --- is the part number and indicates it is in the CMOS family of = chips. Specifically, it happens to be a digital logic chip. When used with an RC feedback network on a gate you get a timer similar to the 555. Schmitt --- means it has a property called hysteresis. Hysteresis is often mentioned for noise immunity or wave-shaping applications. However, in a 4093-as-timer circuit it is useful because it permits designing a timer without having to add a voltage divider network to set trigger points. Just add a resistor and capacitor and your set, much like the 555 (which has its voltage divider network internally). Add another resistor and 2 diodes (or 1 diode, depending on application) if = you need to change duty cycle symmetry. Each of the gates has two inputs and one can be left free for use as a timer activation control. Quad --- Indicates there are 4 logic gates. If you've heard of the 556, you know it's really two 555's on one chip. Similarily, a 4093 has 4 separate sections you can configure for your apps. NAND --- Specifies the type of logic gate. To the person who wanted to know where to buy a 4093 chip: any electronics parts store that carries CMOS logic chips will have it, except possibly Radio Shark as they never have much selection. Try www.digikey.com or www.jameco.com. MECHANICAL TIMING METHOD ---------------------------------------------- The "electronically impaired" might try using a mechanical method such as slow RPM motors (taken from old clock radios, toys, washing machine cycle timers, etc.) with cams and microswitches; you can have multiple cams on one shaft and control many different switches from the rotation of one motor. Adding a gear or small drive belt to drive a = second shaft gives you a different timing speed for other devices. On/off = periods are adjusted by changing the cam shapes. Think about all the possibilities you can have here, since there are many switches activated at various times and each can control relays, message playback modules, motors, lights, etc. It's a low tech way of doing = things, without the need for microcontroller circuitry. - - - - - Subject: RE: HALL: Automation Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:25:11 -0700 From: Mike Wakerly To: "Halloween" On 4/17/98 6:54 AM, Allan, David (DS) wrote: >Chris, > >Check out the XTension program. It works with X-10 and various two-way >interfaces to respond to triggers (e.g. motion detectors, switch >closures) and respond with macros. It is programmed in AppleScript, and >is pretty flexible. The program is about $100 or less, and the two-way >controller (CM11A or LynX-10) runs $50-$100, I think. > > http://www.shed.com > >Lotsa other useful X-10 info there, too. There is also an XTension >mailing list that is fairly active. The product is under active >development. The developer provides good tech support, and there is a >knowledgable user group. Swing software also sells a Mac x-10 interface , which is (as I recall) cheaper than Xtension. I'm not sure if you can use AppleScript, though. The advantage with using AppleScript in the X-10 software would be that you can control an ADB-I/O unit (http://www.bzzzzzz.com). One of these boxes should let you do a bunch! It's basically a bunch of relays... Haven't used any of the above, but I'd appreciate comments from people who have (ie should I buy this?) - - - - - From: "Allan, David (DS)" To: "'Halloween'" Subject: RE: HALL: Automation Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:05:01 -0400 Mike, Check out the XTension web site, as has already been mentioned. Lotsa home automation ideas, several of which utilize the ADB-I/O unit. http://www.shed.com I have recently started using XTension for some home automation stuff, and I'm happy with it. But, I'm not a power user, nor have I tried any kind of automated events like Chris wants to do. The X-10 protocol has significant limitations, including low bandwidth, no protection against collisions of signals, and no verification that a command was received or executed. Still, it may be ok for some applications. David >---------- >From: Mike Wakerly[SMTP:mike at wakerly.com] >Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 2:25 PM >To: Halloween >Subject: RE: HALL: Automation > >On 4/17/98 6:54 AM, Allan, David (DS) wrote: >>Chris, >> >>Check out the XTension program. It works with X-10 and various two-way >>interfaces to respond to triggers (e.g. motion detectors, switch >>closures) and respond with macros. It is programmed in AppleScript, and >>is pretty flexible. The program is about $100 or less, and the two-way >>controller (CM11A or LynX-10) runs $50-$100, I think. >> >> http://www.shed.com >> >>Lotsa other useful X-10 info there, too. There is also an XTension >>mailing list that is fairly active. The product is under active >>development. The developer provides good tech support, and there is a >>knowledgable user group. > >Swing software also sells a Mac x-10 interface >, which is (as >I recall) cheaper than Xtension. I'm not sure if you can use AppleScript, >though. The advantage with using AppleScript in the X-10 software would >be that you can control an ADB-I/O unit (http://www.bzzzzzz.com). One of >these boxes should let you do a bunch! It's basically a bunch of relays... > >Haven't used any of the above, but I'd appreciate comments from people >who have (ie should I buy this?) - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 07:46:00 -0800 Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN At 09:11 AM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 98-04-21 06:24:37 EDT, you write: > >> >> Hey Jerry, >> What you're starting to describe is a DTMF tone decoder. >I know this has been posted to the list befor, but is the DTMF >decoder REALLY as simple as what I described? I can't begin to speak from experience, I've never played with DTMF myself. Many of my customers work with it and seem to think it's very easy to deal with especially if you can burn your own CD's to keep the tones pure. Others have told me they use loop tapes with success. Editing seems simple with a program like Cool Edit, the voice is recorded on one track and the tones inserted on the other track as you go along a graphic display of the wave form. To a gear-head like me, it sounds do-able. - - - - - From: "Carl Cowley" Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:20:29 -0700 Many company's still carry the DTMF decoder chips. One other option, since Wil is looking for single frequency decoding is to use the LM567. The National Semiconductor data book shows how to hook up a bunch of these to make a DTMF decoder, but a single one could easily be used to decode a single frequency. It basically takes four small caps and a couple of resistors, the cap and resistor values depend on what freqency your trying to isolate. The LM567 is 49 cents in single quantities from Jameco. - - - - - Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 10:22:09 -0500 From: eddie white Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN no, not exactly. what you describe is a single tone and decoder per command. dtmf (or touch-tone) uses two tones per command. dtmf takes twice (more or less) what you describe. Dual Tone, Multi Frequency. which one is simpliest, depends on what parts you can get your hands on and what level you can work with. designing the filters for a "vox organ" as you describe it is quite math intensive and not much fun. if you can get your hands on a copy of forrest mims "electronics cookbook" (not sure of the title, don't have it here) he has schematics for using old 567 tone decoders and has a few scr driver circuits. (saw one the other day in barnes and noble.) more soldering than math, but neither are "plug-and-play." but, it would give you a start. eddie At 09:11 AM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote: > >I know this has been posted to the list befor, but is the DTMF >decoder REALLY as simple as what I described? >I completely understand and could "handle" the "VOX ORGAN" >concept. But this other device sounds a bit more complicated. >How much "added on" electronics would I need even >if I could go to "target" and pick up the DTMF basic unit. >Will this unit work with simple power/in/out hook ups? - - - - - From: milwiron at btprod.com Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:41:02 -0800 Subject: Re: HALL: VOX ORGAN At 08:20 AM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote in part: >It basically takes four small caps and a couple of >resistors, the cap and resistor values depend on what freqency your trying >to isolate. >The LM567 is 49 cents in single quantities from Jameco. Thanks Carl, I see The Robot Builder's Bonanza has a list of component values and resulting frequencies for the 567 chip in appendix C. - - - - - From: Spookyfx at aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 21:40:23 EDT Subject: HALL: repeating video tone control In a message dated 98-08-26 16:32:05 EDT, you write: > audio recorder available for under $10,000 .... and nearly everyone has > one! The helical-scan head in a video deck emulates a tape speed of some > number of meters per second. Giving it extremely good frequency > response. I highly recomend anyone use their VHS Hi-Fi deck anytime you > need up to 6hrs of high quality audio. > > Bruce > Hey, Denny, (or anyone) would this work for the tone decoder? Or will the VHS tape stretch like any other audio tape? Also what about metal tape? Has anyone tried this? The loop voice chip does a great job, but I still want to play with it a bit before moving on to the microprocessors.... - - - - - From: source at netcom.com (David Harmon) Subject: Re: HALL: repeating video tone control Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 07:03:34 GMT On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 01:46:35 EDT, Jerry wrote: >Would metal tape not have the stretch problem.... >I had not thought of that until now. No. "Metal" tape has metal content in the magnetic coating for higher magnetization levels, but the tape backing itself is the same plastic film. One thing, though, do not use any cassette longer than a C-90 (45 min per side) if you are concerned about stretch. Longer cassettes like C-120 have to use thinner tape to make it fit. I can't promise that shorter tapes would be good enough, but thinner tape couldn't help any. - - - - - From: mrscary at kiva.net Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 12:55:24 -0500 Subject: RE: HALL: x-10 Lots of talk on the x-10 but there are other options that might work....Here is a portion of a contribution Don (the list king) made a while back: >I bought a 32 port input/output digital card that fits in any 8-bit slot of >a IBM-compatable computer. It's a > >PCL-720 $175 > >Advantech >800-800-6889 > >This card then can drive PCL daughter boards or your own that carry relays. > >They also have a 144 port input/output digital card that is interrupt driven, >that runs for $275. > >I bought mine three years ago, and works like a charm. The relays I have >are rated at 240V 5Amp and don't even get warm with heavy usage. > >Easy as cake^H^H^H^Hpie... :) > >don >bertino at netcom.com ____/^\_____________________________________ÊÊÊÊÊ >Disney ascii art & / \ || FDC MCP || / \ÊÊ >animations are at <______\ [] [] [] || [] [] [] || [] [] [] /______> >http://www.calweb.com \----------------||----------||----------------/=== >/~bertino===============\______________||__________||______________/===== You can also use PIR's from the hardware store, pressure-mats, and IR detectors. Also, you could either buy or build a clicker-box. There are also a couple of timers availible on the web. TBD has one, and Haunt Master builds another. Yet another one I can't recall the name, but a search for "timers" might find it. Also, if memory serves correct, there is a website (homeautomation.com or something) that uses the x-10 and similar devices. Or, if you really like to tinker, build a show-controller using BASIC stamps to control relays. Also, check out the ever-so-popular pawn shops for any Dj lighting controllers/chasers etc. There are boards out there you program a clubs lighting on for the night...allowing the Dj more time to "show". The board does 90% of the lighting work. If all you need is an item to turn on when a group passes, then there is no need to bother with an x-10. Use a sensor (PIR, IR, pressure-mat etc). Run that into a single-shot timer and the event is ready.. - - - - - From: FriteMstr at aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:12:26 EST Subject: HALL: Computer Control Here an outline of a Computer Control systen that Ive been working on from the ground up: On the PC you have a paralell (printer) port. There are 8 data lines and 1 bus chasiss ground. Using your preferred programming language (QB, VB, JAVA, etc) you can send decimal values to the port address (listed in the system BIOS and windows registry) and get the binary equivalent on the port's data lines. Seeing as this is 8 line binary, this can allow for upto 256 different effects controlled from a single port (you can have more than one port). Using a DB25 connector, you could create an adaptor to take the data lines and bus ground, then send it along some type of 9 pin cable. The 9 pin cable would then go to each control unit on each device you wanted to control. These would be wired in paralell, eventhough at first glance have a wire come in and go out says "series circuit". Now the tricky part. When the 8 Dlines and ground line come into the 'box', they will be put through a series of AND gates to see if it is the device that is to be activiated. The AND gates would be wired so that if its binary representation of its ID number is on the port, it would send a signal from a single, final AND gate to one of two places: 1)To turn something on/off, it would be wired to a Flip-Flop that would change states and activate a relay 2)A special circuit that I have gotten off of the net that will send one signal to something, for example the trigger pin of a 555 - - - - - Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:03:10 -0800 From: Chuck Rice Subject: Re: HALL: Computer Control At 9:41 PM -0800 1/13/99, John Koepke Jr wrote: > I have found device that will do such a thing. But I am not good wih making > boards. Thats my only problem.... If you do not want to make your own boards, you might want to take a look at: <http://www.weedtech.com/index.html>. The RS232 Digital I/O board ($32) might be just what you are looking for. -Chuck- - - - - - From: htraver at dreamsys.com Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:23:26 -0700 Subject: HALL: Computer Control (Matt on his computer control idea) The only bug with your design would be you could only activate any of the 256 devices one at a time. On my own design, I set it up as 8 bits of data and 16 bits of address, 3 bytes per program step. This allows at one data line per device to be able to control 4 megabytes of devices, 8 of them every program step. This allows possible robotics applications that require simultaneous activating or de-activating of controls, while your scheme renders that impossible, unless you use a super fast step rate to make it appear to have simultaneous triggering... - - - - - From: FriteMstr at aol.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 22:43:20 EST Subject: Re: HALL: Computer Control <> Since the output goes to a flip flop, the state remains changed so you CAN have 256 devices on simultaneuosly. - - - - - From: htraver at dreamsys.com Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 23:04:44 -0700 Subject: Re: HALL: Computer Control (Matt on using flip flops) Dont forget to add the reset line on power up, or ALL your effects will turn off and on randomly on powerup! Best bet for a flip flop: 74ls374, 8 flip flops from a single latch line.... - - - - - From: C40179 at aol.com Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 04:24:33 EDT Subject: Re: HALL: Parallel Port Animatronic Show Controller Software >I read once someone mentioning using Midi Sequencing software to control >events.Ê My question is, how do you get the signal out of the computer >and into something that can control your animatronics? There's a gadget at . . . www.mediamat.com (that's mediamation) that converts midi controller signals into standard rc-servo-signals (pulse width signals) It'll control up to 8 servos for about $200?Ê . .maybe $240 (i forget) and you could "probably" use At Least up to 16 (maybe more) Of course the sequencer would probably Choke after trying to process that much data. You can use any sequencer or software that'll send out midi-signals (as long as it includes the variableÊ controller data such as the pitch-bends and modulation-wheel signals) (which it will if it's any good at all) If you get their slider-gadget (with 16 sliders?) you can use That to enter the movements INTO the pc while it's recording the midi-data but I think it's a little expensive. You could also try something called the J.L.Cooper Fader-Master (had about 8 sliders for under $300? and would be alot cheaper used nowadays. You could probably use any midi-software you want but if you get something fairly decent you could get something that runs the midi signals WITH recorded audio waveforms which would mean (in the case of CakeWalk I believe) you can fiddle with the servo-movements onscreen right above the audio-waves which means you can Match the audio WITH the movements etc. etc. Chris Hillman Animatronics guy (In Progress) http://members.aol.com/robotweb (check out the HuUuUuge Links-page including links for Animatronics, Robotics, Special-Effects etc.) c40179 at aol.com There's more info about it buried Somewhere in the Animatronics Email-list archives at . . . http://members.aol.com/robotweb/list.html (most likely IN a few pages .. .there's about 20 or so .. so far) - - - - - Subject: X-10 Product Info From: "Timothy Tabol" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:59:28 -0500 Greetings, For those of you considering X-10 this year, here are 3 businesses I have dealt with and had good luck. For specifics on what I use drop me a line = off list and I'd be happy to share the info with anyone. www.smarthome.com www.x-10.com www.homation.com Homation has an excellent application for complete computer control of = X-10 - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: X-10 controls - questions From: Chuck Rice Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:03:48 -0700 At 11:02 AM -0500 1999/08/25, Arthur Brill wrote: >Hi folks, > >I have some questions on the X-10 lighting controlls. There are 16 "Unit >codes", and 16 "House codes". What is the difference between the two? > >Also, can someone explain briefly how the whole system works, in relation >to all receivers being on the same circuit, the role of the component = with >the antenna on it (The transmitter???), etc... There is a beginner's explanation here: . -Chuck- - - - - - Subject: Re: Re: X-10 and strobe light delay's ? From: "Web Goblin of Goblinville" Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:00:42 -0700 Go to www.x10.com - basically, they're modules you plug into an outlet and then plug a light or appliance into. You have a keypad or software that then turns whatever on or off, and in the case of light modules, they can dim or brighten the attached light. Radio Shack & Lowe's, among others, carry them. They're about $12.95 each plus the cost of whatever = controller you choose. They also have video cameras for like $50, heat sensor switches, etc. They're running a special where you could get a wireless remote = controller, a lamp module and a simple computer interface & software for $5.95 - just checked - the special's still running - click on the "First Time Guests" button on the main page. At that price, I couldn't turn it down. They've changed that special a little since I got it a couple months ago - at that time, there were 2 more modules in the set. - - - - - Subject: Timer Circuit on Sale! From: "Jeff Brown" Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:28:59 -0800 For those of you who recently purchased "The Haunted How-To of Phil = Miller" or are looking for an inexpensive adjustable interval timer, the Velleman MK111 is on sale at Radioshack.com for $6.95 (regularly $9.95). Here's the scoop from their site: Cat.#: 990-0350 Use this kit to operate a blinking light, video/photo single frame shooting, a slide projector, or for your miniature models. The output = relay handles 5A, using a dry switch-over contact. You can adjust the pulse time = between 0.5 and 5 seconds, and the pause time between 2.5 and 60 seconds. Power requirements: 12VDC/100mA. (Includes: instruction manual. Mfr. Warranty: 30-day limited. Size: 50x30mm (WD).) Not available in stores, only on-line. I can only think of about a = thousand uses, but it's early! - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Geek alert From: "Malcolm Little" Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 23:35:09 -0400 Look here for the 25/36 equivalents. http://www.physiol.ox.ac.uk/~trp/pinouts.html#5 -Malcolm > I have some old project boards that I am attempting to revive > and have a > question I hope somebody can answer. These boards use the computer's > parallel port, but I need to trick the 'puter into thinking > the printer is > OK. On a Db25 I used to tie 15-nError and 10-nAck to +5 with > a 4.7K resistor > and 11-Busy and 12-paperout to GND. > > Problem is, how do I accomplish this same thing in a 36 pin Centronics > connector? - - - - - Subject: event timer using a basic stamp From: "capdiamont" Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 12:25:04 -0700 Hello, Looking around, I noticed that event timers are quite expensive, for = the micro controller ones. So I Decided to make my own using a Basic Stamp. It doesn't have any switches to set the time and doesn't react to any = switches like pressure mats( can add it if anyone is interested). It can be set for Hours 0 to 255, Minutes 0 to 255, and Seconds 0 to 255. To change the = time, change the code a little, connect the stamp to the computer, and download the code to the stamp. The stamp cost around $40 to $60, plus the cost of the relays. My relay setup can handle to 10 amps at 120vAC(20 amps if I = use both contacts). http://www.geocities.com/capdiamont/event.htm - - - - - Subject: Re: event timer using a basic stamp From: "Alexander" Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 02:41:37 -0500 Lawrence, No, No, No use a PLC instead It's less programming, cheaper in cost, more reliable, and built for industrial use. For $99 bucks a unit you get, like, 8 input and 6 outputs, Ac, Dc, Relay, whatever. K.I.S.S - - - - - Subject: Re: event timer using a basic stamp From: "capdiamont" Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 07:34:10 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander" To: "Halloween List" Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 12:41 AM Subject: Hall: Re: event timer using a basic stamp > Lawrence, > No, No, No use a PLC instead It's less programming, cheaper in cost, > more reliable, > and built for industrial use. For $99 bucks a unit you get, like, 8 = input > and 6 outputs, Ac, > Dc, Relay, whatever. K.I.S.S > > Alexander I could buy the industrial version of the Basic Stamp 2 for $59. Any Basic Stamp can interface with Opto22 style I/O modules. The BS2 series has 16 = I/O pins, which can be configured for either input or output. Serial or parallel. Has built in routines for PWM, X10 control(output only), button debounce/repeat, pot reading, DTMF output, RC time. Uses a version of = Basic language. I think it would be good enough for the home haunt. I can buy = add on boards, to make interfacing with servo's easier, and other stuff. - - - - - Subject: Re: RE: event timer using a basic stamp From: "capdiamont" Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 10:35:46 -0700 I'm sure that was a fun project. I've become a huge fan of the BASIC stamp myself. But I'm curious as to what event timers you looked at that were so expensive? Denny Dahm at Terror By Design = (http://www.terrorbydesign.com) currently sells his Universal Dual Timer II for $49.95. I own Denny's UDT and UDT2. I guarantee that I couldn't build a equivalent STAMP-based dual timer for twice that. Jim Kadel at Haunt Master (http://members.aol.com/hmpi/index.htm) sells a Flexible Event Control Timer at $39.95 and a Repeat Control Timer at $29.95. Wicked Beernut You, know, I just don't know, maybe it was staying up late that night. Courious, though, is the ranges anywhere from 0 to 45 or to 255 sec? Or is it set amount of time per position? 5, 10, 15, 20 etc sec? I left knobs = off my design to keep it cheap as possible. I added a triggerable event timer = at http://www.geocities.com/capdiamont/tevent.htm. The only difference = between that and the UDT, is the knobs, and mine can turn on the event up to 16 times per trigger. Need one of the following: Basic Stamp 1 $34 BS2 $49 BS2 industrial $59 Per output: Relay, reed 5vDC $2.49 at Radio Shack 1 amp at 125vAC contacts. As an option, can use the reed replay to turn on a larger relay. 10 amp relay at RS is $6.99 Per input: 1k Ohm resistor, under $1.00 for a pack of 5 or 6 at RS - - - - - Subject: RE: event timer using a basic stamp From: Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 14:44:47 -0700 Lawrence, >You, know, I just don't know, maybe it was staying up late that night. >Courious, though, is the ranges anywhere from 0 to 45 or to 255 sec? Or is >it set amount of time per position? 5, 10, 15, 20 etc sec? I left knobs off >my design to keep it cheap as possible. I added a triggerable event time= r >at >http://www.geocities.com/capdiamont/tevent.htm. The only difference betw= een >that and the UDT, is the knobs, and mine can turn on the event up to 16 >times per trigger. Denny would have to comment on the resolution he gets out of his microcon= troller. I know that he doesn't use a stamp. I suspect that the resolution would be on the order of the range in seconds divided by 255. Or 180 ms for the= 0 to 45 range and 1 second for the 0 to 255 range. >Need one of the following: >Basic Stamp 1 $34 >BS2 $49 >BS2 industrial $59 I assume that's just for the chip. What kind of board are you mounting th= e chip on? Your website mentions a Stamp Controller Interface Board at $139= or a Basic Stamp carrier board. You can get a stamp 1 and 2 carrier board= for $20 and $25, respectively. >Per output: >Relay, reed 5vDC $2.49 at Radio Shack 1 amp at 125vAC contacts. >As an option, can use the reed replay to turn on a larger relay. 10 amp >relay at RS is $6.99 I've never used reed relays. I've always used solid-state relays. >Per input: >1k Ohm resistor, under $1.00 for a pack of 5 or 6 at RS I didn't mean to suggest that you couldn't build a bare bones, battery-op= erated dual timer for $60 or $70. My point was that you couldn't build Denny's UDT2 at twice the price ($49) using a stamp. I know for a fact that Denny uses each and every one of the 16 I/O pins of his microcontroller in order to control the UDT2. That would require a stamp 2. He also has the cost of LEDs, terminals, a test button, the ca= se, ...., and he includes a power supply for your $49. I don't think that you could do it for under $100. I don't have any experience with a PLC (that Alexander alluded to), but I fell in love with the BASIC stamp as part of my computer-controlled cof= fin, http://www.wickedbeernut.com If a PLC is anywhere near as simple to use as a stamp, I'd encourage anyo= ne who has even the smallest amount of techno-savvy to try an build their ow= n dual timer using either one of these devices. Once you're finished, you'l= l realize that the possibilities for this type of device (the stamp) are endless. At that point, I'd suggest that you go out and buy Denny's UDT2 (or one of Jim's timers) for $49 and reprogram your stamp to control that= walking, talking prop with night vision you've always dreamed of. I was very happy with the $40 First Step Microcontroller that I used as part of my computer-controlled coffin. This is a board with a BASIC stamp= 1 microcontroller which is capable of controlling up to four servo motors= .. It has the standard stamp 1 eight I/O, of which four can optionally be us= ed to control servo motors. The three-wire servo motor connector connects di= rectly to the First Step. It comes in kit form and requires what I'd consider in= termediate soldering skills. I've seen where you can purchase them assembled for ano= ther $5. - - - - - Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 22:25:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Dave Bell Subject: Re: HALL: Macs. (Was Automation) On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, John Massaglia wrote: > For all you mac users that are interested in automating your HH with a > mac, there is a product called ADB I/O which is made by BeeHive > Technologies. It plugs into your ADB chain (keyboard and mouse) and it > has 4 relay inputs and 4 relay outputs. > they cost $199. That seems like a lot for only four inputs and four > outputs. Has anyone else seen anything that is more reasonable? On a more serious note than my last post, I've considered something like this as one of the possible implementations of the PC-based event controller that keeps rising from the dead on the list. Rather than the KBD/Mouse ports, I would stick with the serial or parallel interfaces; if we stay with serial only, even (choke, gasp) Macs could be coerced into working with it. I'd use an embedded PIC processor to implement 8 in and 8 out bits in a single module. The modules would daisy-chain together off a single serial port, each module "acquiring" a module number or address determined by how many units away from the port it is. That is, the first unit would always be #1, the second in the chain would be #2, etc. With real compact 2-byte commands and responses, I could handle up to 63 modules - probably more than any reasonable haunted house would need (504 ins and 504 outs!). At this point, I don't have a good idea as to cost per module, but it would have to be 'way below that $199/4 bit model. The big variables are what kind of inputs and outputs (voltages and currents), and what sort of connectors or terminals go on the boxes, which in turn, relates to how "fancy" the packaging needs to get. Discussion? - - - - - Subject: PC 120vdc interface $40 - computer "STAMPS" From: "Ron Tye" Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:04:19 http://electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm CK1601 - PARALLEL PORT RELAY BOARD FOR IBM PC (software included) Use an old PC as a "dedicated controller" to turn on or off devices lab or = radio shack. The circuit includes eight relays controlled with (included) software for either DOS or Windows 3.1. The kit is a boon to the Science Fair project, laboratory experimenter and so on. Connects to the parallel port of any IBM-PC. View complete specifications in .pdf format ck1601.pdf CK1601 - Parallel Port Relay Board .................. $39.95[Order][Checkout] Suggested Retail $49.95 (You save $10.00) - - - - - Subject: "STAMPS" - Brent From: "Ron Tye" Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:37:11 Nope, this is not x-10. It's a board that plugs into your printer port and = lets your PC control the boards 8 relays that can swithc on/off 120vac stuff. Take a look at my posting titled "PC 120vdc interface $40" it includes a description and web address. http://electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm Ok now I'll stop playing dumb about STAMPS. I suspect your refering to the = little comptuers on a chip that can be programed in basic from your PC and = then run independantly. With out any extra stuff they can controll 8 LEDs and similar low voltage/power devices. With a bit of extra stuff they can handel 12vdc and a bit more power. With enough extra stuff they can = controll the world. But the cheepest one is about $40. If you just want to controll some = 120vac things the PC relay board is a better buy. Mined you I love STAMPS. Theyer easy to use, fun to play with and often = the cheepest and easyiest solution to controling stuff like props. Well I use to love STAMPS. My heart has been stolen by micro controlers = (the kind of chip that the stamp uses). Micro controler are way cheeper than stamps $6 - $15 and way more powerful ($40 STAMPS use a technology thats = at least 3 years old); but, they use to be a pain to use. They needed an expensive programmer ($50 - $$$) and you had to program = them in assembler or buy a compiler ($100 - $$$) and they needed a loader and maybe a debuger or simulator. BUT NOT ANY MORE I've discoverd ATMEL makes a family of microcontrolers (AVR's) that don't need a programmer (just hook them up to your PC like a STAMP). They GIVE AWAY FOR FREE a very impressive BASIC compiler - assembler - loader - simulator (all the software you could wish for to make the thing work). = And they give you the plans for makeing the PC to AVR cable (almost no parts = and very easy to do). Bottom line - you can get everything you need to start playing with chips that are just about as easy to use as STAMPSÊ but way better for a total investmet of $15 or less.Ê And even better you can add one of these computers to any project you like for about $6. Ron I'm starting to like this new century I've just found a increadably inexpensive alternative that's significantly = more powerful and only slightly more complex to use. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Pneumatics From: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:06:24 -0600 At 06:26 AM 03/21/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I guess the question I have is: how do I >get it to pop 3 times, pause, and pop 3 more times?Ê Am I even close? Hi Upier, Build a "clicker"... Just a slow RPM motor with a multi-lobed plastic or wooden cam on it that trips a micro-switch controlling the solenoid valve. It's ancient technology but sign shops still use similar setups for neon work, I've seen 50 to 70 year old cammed switches that work as well as the day they were built. To trip the casket off a remote sensor or switch mat break the power going to the solenoid valve and leave the cam running. (Obligatory warning: remember switch mats are strictly low voltage = devices, using a UDT or ECT is a good thing) If you want to get a little more modern, Basic Stamps and microcontrollers are perfect for simple cascade timing functions like this. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Pneumatics From: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:29:00 EST There is a fairly nifty circuit on the web using a 555 timer to give 10 = pulses. It is fairly simple and I hav built a couple. Using it you could = easily actuate a valve on the first three pulses skip the next three, = pulse three again and use the last pulse to shut down the sequence. I have = also had a lot of trouble with this type of actuation with no good = solution. I "discovered" a little controller atÊ tw that has eight = programmable channels. you can turn each channel on and off any number of = times for varying durations. Software is included and it seems like a = divine answer for control issues I have had. Price is $150.00 and I have = one on order. This would be able to control a prop like this wit one = channel and the other seven would be used for other props, lights, etc. - - - - - Subject: Re: RE: Gilderfluke controller (was: Pneumatics) From: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 01:23:59 Hi Jeff: > Model Minibrick8 -. It come in two flavors - one with screw > terminals for the output and one that takes a 15 pin > connector. I like the screw terminals. ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ You're recommending the MiniBrick8, but I'm wondering just exactly what it is that this thing does.Ê Is it at all similar to the project defined via the MonsterList as being a "PC Haunt Control"?Ê (Just so you don't have to look it up, it's at the following URL:Ê http://www. thebells.net/Halloween/PLCC/PLCC.htmlÊ ) ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ I must confess that I have not yet downloaded the .PDF files from the Gilderfluke site, so I don't know all the ins and outs of their controller.Ê But, if they're similar, there exist plans to make one, and I suspect that it could be made for far less than what Gilderfluke is charging. - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: RE: Gilderfluke controller (was: Pneumatics) From: "Jeff Brown" Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:33:56 -0800 At 01:23 AM 03/28/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Hi Jeff: > >ÊÊÊÊÊÊÊÊ You're recommending the MiniBrick8, but I'm wondering just = exactly >what it is that this thing does.Ê Is it at all similar to the project >defined via the MonsterList as being a "PC Haunt Control"?Ê (Just so >you don't have to look it up, it's at the following URL:Ê http://www. >thebells.net/Halloween/PLCC/PLCC.htmlÊ ) I took a look at that site, and from what I can tell, his board gets = hooked up to a PC continuously, and the PC sends the signals to his board. This = is a great use for all those old 386's a lot of us have laying around collecting dust (Thanks Bill Gates!) A PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) is usually a stand-alone device (although I guess you could consider a PC connected to a card a REALLY large PLC). PLC's have been used for ages in robotics applications (like assembly lines). They also control things like sophisticated theme park rides, like roller coasters (that's where I became familiar with them). The Gilderfluke product is, in theory a PLC, but isn't marketed as such. What I like about it is the ease of programming (and the fact that once programmed, you disconnect the PC and it retains the program for years, even when no power is applied). You can download the software for free and = take a look at it at: http://www.gilderfluke.com/DownloadableSoftware All the manuals are also free to download at the main site. As to what it does, it sends a 9-24 volt signal out to eight different outputs at intervals you program. It has two inputs, which you program to do different things, like start the show. In many applications, it would = be overkill. I am using one for my opening room, which is a classroom. It starts a digital soundtrack, controls a talking skeleton and a talking Big = Mouth Billy Bass (custom programmed), starts a videotape, turns on and off = the lights, and opens a hidden door. Another unit controls a elevator = illusion. Let me (or the list) know what you want to control and perhaps we can come = up with a simpler or cheaper solution! - - - - - Subject: Re: Hall: Re: RE: Gilderfluke controller (was: Pneumatics) From: Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 03:18:45 EST These controlers do not have to remain connected to the pc after the = program is loaded. They are stand alone as you have described a PLC. At = least that was how it was explained to me by the rep and why I bought one. UNDER COLOR ORGAN FLICKER, add JimK's transformer-driven LEDs. - - - - - Subject: Universal Dual Timer clarifications From: Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:13:37 -0500 Hi Folks, Since TBD's Universal Dual Timer II and integrated Infrared version have been the subject of comparison I though I'd try to clarify some statements made and answer some questions. First I must say that I encourage anyone with the interest and electronics ability to build their own timers, they can be useful tools and a great learning experience. If you're not comfortable with electronics but want to learn, Radio = Shack's books are a good starting point. In fact, some of Radio Shack's handbooks have simple, easy to build timer circuits. Ignore most electronic how-to advice on the Internet until you have a decent foundation. On with the show... Asking about the UDT: >You, know, I just don't know, maybe it was staying up late that night. >Courious, though, is the ranges anywhere from 0 to 45 or to 255 sec? Or = is >it set amount of time per position? 5, 10, 15, 20 etc sec? Hi Lawrence, if I understand your question correctly, the UDT II and UDT = IR both have user settable timing sequences in accurate one second increments for all three timing circuits. 0 to 45 for example has 46 time selections available, zero being one of them. UDT's were designed for commercial haunt use, longer times (hours) or = finer resolutions (1/2 or 1/1000 second) have never been an issue. >I left knobs =3D >off >my design to keep it cheap as possible. My goal with both versions of the UDT was not to produce the cheapest effect timer but to design the best effect timer with an easy to use customer interface at a reasonable cost. Product engineering is what I do, it's what I've always done, the UDT II and UDT IR are products I'm proud = to stand behind and are based on decades of formal experience and education. There are cheaper and more expensive timers available. I know what it = takes to build a solid product, cheaper is seldom better, the best easy to use timer for the money was my intent. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not cocky or bragging, product engineering is probably the only thing that I actually do well. Thank god for at least that. ;-) >I added a triggerable event timer =3D >at >http://www.geocities.com/capdiamont/tevent.htm. The only difference =3D >between >that and the UDT, is the knobs, and mine can turn on the event up to 16 >times per trigger With respect, it is a bit more than a few knobs and to characterize it as such is a tad unfair. The devil, as they say, is in the user friendly interface details... and many more lines of code and support components. I have never been asked to build a timer that would make a device or = pop-up repeat 16 times. If that's a handy feature in your haunt then you were = very wise to incorporate it. During Crank-Through in most commercial haunts getting a device to fire once and reset back to its' ready status as soon as possible is more of an issue. The UDT's Delay-Before-On, On-Time and Off-Time are user settable with out any computer hook-up. Just twist the knobs. On-site time setting is accurate and dependable. Timing sequences can immediately be changed to meet crowd level requirements. Low, 0 to 45 seconds and High, 0 to 225 second timing ranges are easily user selectable. Most haunts will never use the high timing range but it's there just in case. The UDT II was designed from the beginning to incorporate an Infrared Sensor as a separate unit- the UDT IR. Infrared sensing was not an afterthought. Each UDT II can control single shot events or can be set by the user to continuously loop for repeating action. Bi-color LED's change color to indicate timing and readiness status. Each timing sequence LED blinks to tick count the seconds. An audible but very subtle ticking sound also indicates seconds as they = pass. 10 amp. load capability @ 120 VAC. Controls low voltage AC or DC or line voltage AC. A UDT can turn one device Off while it turns another circuit On. No other hardware is necessary. Safe- low voltage, 5 mA external switch triggered i.e. switch mat, TBD's T-Sense, push button, etc.. Accurate, non-volatile memory. Timing is not lost when power is removed. Multiple units can be triggered from one switch source for single-room multiple events. Includes a wall type power supply but can also be battery operated @ 7-18 = Vdc. Internal circuitry is protected on all I/O lines. If someone can do all the above and add a case, terminal blocks, label, instructions especially if you're trying to use a BSI or BSII for 50 bucks retail or 70 bucks with IR, I'll sell your timer instead of mine! If anyone has any question or concerns I'd be happy to try and answer = them... with a much shorter post of course. ;-) Denny - - - - - Subject: Cascading timer with trigger and randomness From: "capdiamont" Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 18:00:27 -0700 This is a more complex timer, that can be triggered by a pressure = sensitive mat or other switch, relay, etc. It can loop repeatedly with out looking = for a trigger. It can also randomly set the delay between the trigger and the event or between the events. Delay time from the trigger to the 1st event, or between events, can bet set manually or randomly from 0 to 255 seconds. The on time of the events can be set manually from 0 to 255 seconds. You = can control up to 15 events, but you don't have to. Just add output circuits = as you go. Events can be individually set. One event can be manually set, the other randomly set. http://www.geocities.com/capdiamont/ctimer.htm - - - - - Subject: RE: Hall: Animatronics, controllers, sound, and such From: Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 16:19:29 -0700 >For those of you that design animatronics (or are considering it), what kind >of controllers do you use, or like to use? Is it pretty much zone-trigge= r >pop-ups, or do you get more elaborate with computer control? >Anybody using R/C servos, or is it mostly pneumatics? I've grown pretty fond of the First Step microcontroller. http://www.lynxmotion.com/ The First Step is sold in kit form (requires soldering) for $40. Lynxmoti= on (Midwest) sells them assembled for an additional $5. The folks at Mondo-T= ronics (West Coast) are great to work with and also sell the First Step kit for $40. http://www.robotstore.com/catalog/display.asp?pid=3D122 The First Step is a BASIC Stamp 1 (BS1) based microcontroller which is ca= pable of controlling up to four servo motors. A BS1 has eight "pins" which can be configured (through software) as either inputs or outputs. Of these ei= ght pins, the first four (0 - 3) can (optionally) be configured as outputs an= d used to control servo motors. I used a First Step to control my computer-controlled coffin. I used it to control servo motors in the corpses neck and head. I used it to actuat= e air cylinders via solenoid valves and solid-state relays. I used it to tr= igger a Radio Shack digital voice recorder. I just bought two more assembled First Step microcontrollers from Lynxmot= ion and a pair of PIR movement detector modules. I plan to have the First Ste= p monitor three zones using the PIR modules and have the head of a Monster Mud prop "follow" the TOTs as they walk from zone to zone. If you're not worried about your microcontroller being tethered to a PC, you can always use a Mini Serial Servo Controller 2 (Mini SSC2). Mondo-Tr= onics sells the SSC2 for $48.95, http://www.robotstore.com/catalog/display.asp?pid=3D92 The SSC2 can control up to eight servo motors. Last year I used a SSC2 to control a few rats, a crow and a corpse hand. The heads of the rats and the crow simply turned from side to side, stopp= ing randomly at points in between. The corpse hand was coming out of the grou= nd. The fingers of the corpse hand (ramdonly) opened and closed into a fist. I found that you could run the servo wires a LONG way from the SSC2. I ha= d the SSC2 attached to a PC in the upstairs bedroom and I had the corpse ha= nd in the front lawn! This year I will connect the rats and crow to the First Step microcontrol= lers which will be located around the yard. - - - - -