This file is one of the Wolfstone archives of the Halloween mailing lists. You can find out more, and reach the entire collection here: http://www.pobox.com/~wolfstone/_r/HalloweenArchive.html This is a copy of Don Bertino's archive from http://www.calweb.com/~bertino/halloween.html on the subject of "reverse mask". Minor changes have been made, mostly removal of E-mail headers and signatures, but the germane content is unchanged. - - Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 07:08:57 -0700 From: milwiron at ix.netcom.com (D.D. ) Subject: Figure and reverse mask question Hi gang, For years I've been thinking* about doing a full sized hooded and robed "death" figure using a reverse/anti-mask vac-form face in a slightly oversized hood. The back lighting could be one of those small 4 or 6 inch fluorescent fixtures. Since money and time are limited (sez my wife and mortgage holder) I was wondering if anyone has seen this done in a figure form and how the effect looked? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Denny *I try to do 10 minutes of thinking a day whether I need it or not. - - Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:13:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Bertino Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, D.D. wrote: Hi Denny! > For years I've been thinking* about doing a full sized hooded and > robed "death" figure using a reverse/anti-mask vac-form face in a > slightly oversized hood. The back lighting could be one of those small > 4 or 6 inch fluorescent fixtures. I have not seen a whole body cast done, not to say it hasn't been. :) But, I think it is truely more spooky to have a head and face move in sync itself to your moments vs. a whole body move. IMHO :) > Since money and time are limited (sez my wife and mortgage > holder) I was wondering if anyone has seen this done in a figure form > and how the effect looked? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Ya know, I truely think that there is a market for these... And if they are backlight WOW!!! don (just trying to help with the mortage :) bertino - - Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 12:24:22 -0700 From: milwiron at ix.netcom.com (D.D. ) Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question Hi Don, You wrote: >But, I think it is truely more spooky to have a head and face move in >sync itself to your moments vs. a whole body move. IMHO :) You're absolutely right, I didn't make my post very clear I'm afraid, only the face would be a reverse mask, the rest of the figure would be a padded wire form of a body with a black velvet cape. The mask would sit recessed in the hood, at least that's the thinking. - - From: TheLazer at aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 17:39:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, D.D. wrote:> For years I've been thinking* about doing a full sized hooded and > robed "death" figure using a reverse/anti-mask vac-form face in a > slightly oversized hood. The back lighting could be one of those small > 4 or 6 inch fluorescent fixtures. Okay first is this a attempt to making a costume or some kind of robotic figure. If you want to do a costume then okay, but first, do you know someone who has a Vacume Former system. If you do, great!. If not, there not very cheap. Second what are you going to use for a model.. The Vacume systems I know of, take a peace of plastic heat it up till it just about melts then sucks it down onto the mold were upon it hardens. Not somthing you would want to use your face for! As for being backlit with lights, well, the best thing I can think of is get 2 of the new Non bulb night lights, they work by having a peace of film that when current is run thur it, the film lights up!. For those of you who have seen Spectromagic {A show at Walt Disney World}, you will know what I am talking about, you can find it one the Wings of the girls that walk around and look like angles. {Remember those strange glowing panels} Well if you take and mask them so it looks like a pair of Eyes, glowing you get a cool effect, and cheep too!. Costs less the florsecint Now, if your thinking about doing something Robitic, Dont!. Unless you can come up with something Disney Like, it will look really bad!. Personly a dummer with its arms going up and down over and over as if to choke you, isnt impressive. Now, if that dummey then gets up and walks over to you and DOES choke you, now that could be scary!. Of couse if while you are progamming a thing like that on a computer and it screws up and throws a desk accorse the stage, then it is just werid! - - Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 18:01:50 -0700 From: milwiron at ix.netcom.com (D.D. ) Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question You wrote: >On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, D.D. wrote:> For years I've been thinking* about >doing a full sized hooded and robed "death" figure using a >reverse/anti-mask vac-form face in a slightly oversized hood. The >back lighting could be one of those small 4 or 6 inch fluorescent >fixtures. >Okay first is this a attempt to making a costume or some kind of >robotic figure. If you want to do a costume then okay, but first, do >you know someone who has a Vacume Former system. Hi Jay, The vac-forming is no problem, I've been a mechanical engineer and have done tool making and product development for along time, anything from hypo- and epicycloidal gearing to casting quick and dirty silicone molds. I can do small vac- forming up to 18 x 24 inches in my machine/prototype shop. I'm not planning on doing any mechanical movement on the figure, I agree, it's hard to pull off well on a human form. I'll most likely use a mold a friend has already made up for the anti-mask, though a plaster mold isn't very hard to do. Don Bertino has a sample of the skeleton face I'm talking about. The luminescent panel light is a very good idea, the hood would be tight for space and a small 6 inch fluorescent fixture would cause a bright spot. My real question is the concept itself. I can make the anti- mask, and I've seen them used at Disney in the Haunted House . I've never seen them used on a figure and while I'm O.K. in my element of building and making anything work mechanically my artistic sense SUCKS, I have NO conceptual ability. I can't envision if it would look right, I might need to build a rough model to check it out. Thanks, Denny - - Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:42:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donna J. Logan" Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question On Sun, 6 Aug 1995 TheLazer at aol.com, in desparate need of a spell checker wrote: > On Thu, 3 Aug 1995, D.D. wrote:> For years I've been thinking* about doing a > full sized hooded and > > robed "death" figure using a reverse/anti-mask vac-form face in a > > slightly oversized hood. The back lighting could be one of those small > > 4 or 6 inch fluorescent fixtures. > > Okay first is this a attempt to making a costume or some kind of robotic > figure. If you want to do a costume then okay, but first, do you know someone > who has a Vacume Former system. If you do, great!. If not, there not very > cheap. Second what are you going to use for a model.. The Vacume systems I > know of, take a peace of plastic heat it up till it just about melts then > sucks it down onto the mold were upon it hardens. Not somthing you would want > to use your face for! As for being backlit with lights, well, the best thing > I can think of is get 2 of the new Non bulb night lights, they work by having > a peace of film that when current is run thur it, the film lights up!. For > those of you who have seen Spectromagic {A show at Walt Disney World}, you > will know what I am talking about, you can find it one the Wings of the girls > that walk around and look like angles. {Remember those strange glowing > panels} Well if you take and mask them so it looks like a pair of Eyes, > glowing you get a cool effect, and cheep too!. Costs less the florsecint A few years ago I watched a do-it-yourself show devoted to scale modeling where they showed how to build your own vacuum-former...granted, they were only vacuum-forming very small pieces, but it may be adaptable to larger pieces. Basically, you start with a mold...for a face mold, I'd just do the classic plaster-on-a-victim, uh *volunteer*'s face, then use that as a base to create a rubber mold, then use the rubber mold for the vacuum-forming. Based on what they showed on the TV show, you'd leave an opening in the mold to attach the nozzle from your home vacuum cleaner; you'd then heat the plastic on a piece of screening in your kitchen oven (I'd suggest doing this on a nice day where you could open all windows, I'd also put fans in the windows to vent out any noxious fumes generated by this process); when the plastic is soft enough you turn on the vacuum and flip the soft plastic over onto the mold and hope for the best. BTW, anyone doing the plaster or papier-mache on the vict, uh volunteer's face, please do remember the Vaseline and straws..... - - Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 11:15:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Bertino Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question On Sun, 6 Aug 1995, D.D. wrote: > The vac-forming is no problem, I've been a mechanical > engineer and have done tool making and product development > for along time, anything from hypo- and epicycloidal gearing to > casting quick and dirty silicone molds. I can do small vac- > forming up to 18 x 24 inches in my machine/prototype shop. I'm > not planning on doing any mechanical movement on the figure, I > agree, it's hard to pull off well on a human form. I'll most likely > use a mold a friend has already made up for the anti-mask, > though a plaster mold isn't very hard to do. Don Bertino has a > sample of the skeleton face I'm talking about. Hi Denny! I just wanted to thank you again (this time publicly :) for it. I am building a plywood box with a light fixture in it. I have not seen an "anti-mask" painted before but the effect looks great! You gotta look into mass producing them :) "But see , I am making money doing this... :)" - - Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 12:25:35 -0700 From: milwiron at ix.netcom.com (D.D. ) Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question You wrote: >You gotta look into mass producing them :) "But see , I am making money doing this... :)" Hi Don, Thanks for the kind words. I've been self employed for 4 years now, I managed a mid-sized development studio before that. I end up working 12 to 14 hours a day, so mass production is out of the question here. Besides, my wife can only be a saint and put up with me just so long. Not only does she put up with the long hours, she puts up with my Halloween hobby and the Harleys that are always sitting under me. My buddy Tom actually made the anti-mask you have, he used to be an employee of mine (he's also self employed now) and now I keep in touch with him to trade his artistic ability and thoughts for my mechanical ability. It works well, neither one of us take ourselves too seriously. I taught him to vac-form around 10 years ago. - - From: TheLazer at aol.com Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 16:32:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Figure and reverse mask question You Wrote> My real question is the concept itself. I can make >the anti- >mask, and I've seen them used at Disney in the Haunted House . >I've never seen them used on a figure and while I'm O.K. in my >element of building and making anything work mechanically >my >artistic sense SUCKS, I have NO conceptual ability. I can't >envision if it would look right, I might need to build a rough >model to check it out. Well, being someone who bulds prototypes, I am sure you know that the first one or two are never quite right. All I can say is that, since you have the time now before halloween and the stuff needed to do it, just start making the masks and tinkering with them. After a few I am sure you will work it out, but it seems like a winner to me! - -